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Author
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Topic: Overheard while touring the space museum
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Machodoc
Member Posts: 207
From: DE
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 08-08-2008 04:04 PM
   
Although I live less than an hour from DC, it's been almost 9 years since I've visited the NASM. Today I was there playing tourist after a meeting at George Washington University (I'm going back to school there this fall to start work on my Ph.D. in political science).Although I'm not really the type to stick my nose into other people's business, I finally couldn't hold back any longer as I overheard a mid 30's father "explain" the moon landing to his kids while standing at the Apollo 11 capsule. We were standing in front of the heat shield, which has three or four divot-looking holes in it exposing some type of circular covering (anybody hazard a guess on those?). The father then launched into an explanation as to how those heat shield "holes" were where the landing legs of the capsule came out when it landed on the surface. Up to that time I politely held my tongue, but when he started talking about the capsule's landing legs, I - very politely and gently - eased into the conversation and set the record straight. While he and his family seemed to sincerely appreciate the correct information (I suggested that go visit the LM down at the far north end of the hall), it just floored me how much innocent (?) ignorance there is about the whole subject. Mind you, this was not a teen or twentysomething guy, but someone obviously in his mid 30's. OK, yes I'm probably a little naive about the whole thing, but jeez... Anyway, one small step....  |
Rob Joyner
Member Posts: 1308
From: GA, USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 08-08-2008 06:03 PM
That reminds of something a coworker asked me about two years ago: "How long does it take the space shuttle to get to the Moon?"  |
Cliff Lentz
Member Posts: 655
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 08-09-2008 02:43 PM
I have the same problem every time I visit NASM. I should have learned to ignore these things, but the Spacenik in me won't allow it. In July, I was standing in front of Friendship Seven and overheard a father telling his son that this is how John Glenn was able to be the first man on the Moon! Could any of you ignore something like that?Cliff |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-09-2008 04:37 PM
I was in earshot when a father and his young daughter were walking around Apollo 11's command module in the Milestones of Flight gallery at the National Air and Space Museum. The girl, looking up to her dad, asked, "What did it do?"In what I initially thought was a wise move by the father, he responded by walking over to the front of the spacecraft's stand, to (seemingly) read the exhibit description. He must have only looked long enough to read the name of the vehicle. "This is what remains of Columbia, the space shuttle in which the astronauts died. Do you remember when we talked about that?" I was torn. On the one hand, I was glad to hear a parent had taken the time to discuss the loss of STS-107 with his child, rather than allowing the TV to convey the message. The loss had also obviously meant something to him, as he recalled the vehicle's name and his approach to the vehicle then noticeably changed to something more somber. But I also wanted to correct him, showing him the folly in the logic of his deduction and explain why it was a poor decision not to read the full plaque. Ultimately I did not, because I did not want him to lose face with his daughter, especially when he was trying to instill in her an appreciation for history. |
Delta7
Member Posts: 1505
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 08-09-2008 05:49 PM
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John Charles
Member Posts: 339
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 08-09-2008 07:26 PM
Robert,This is actually a reassuring thread, because I am glad to be reminded that other people are troubled by the misinformation in circulation. Sometimes it is provided by NASA and contractor employees who really should know better. My current pet peeve is the wide-spread miapprehension that the astronauts will travel to Mars inside the small, six-seat Orion crew module. As if NASA would button up six normal (?) adults inside a capsule barely large enough to turn around inside of, for a 6-month trip there (and the 6-month trip back). When I tell them that this is just the taxi cab that will get the astronauts from the launch pad in Florida to the yet-to-be-constructed, space-station-class Mars transfer vehicle in Earth orbit, most folks look relieved. But some look dubious, like I don't know what I'm talking about. Or maybe they are just applying Occam's Razor, and prefer the simpler explanation involving one spaceship, to my more complex and literally incredible story involving two space ships, including one that will weigh a million pounds and has not been designed yet. ------------------
John Charles
Houston, Texas |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 08-10-2008 12:34 AM
I'll play my little devil's advocate role here  What's the problem here? That everybody isn't as knowledgeable as collectSPACE members about space history? If so, you're asking for a lot. If ignorance was a deadly disease, we would all be dying right now. My level of ignorance is of astronomical proportions - ever try to "flip" through an encyclopedia, like wikipedia for example? It's depressing to see how much I don't know. If this forum was about Greek mythology, I wouldn't be any different than the people mentioned in the posts above. On a positive note, ignorance can be corrected: pick up a book. It's up to everyone of us. I'm more troubled at the inability and/or unwillingness of knowledgeable people to convey their knowledge in a proper way to the general public. But teaching is probably the toughest job around. Chris. |
Mike Z
Member Posts: 451
From: Ellicott City, Maryland
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 08-10-2008 01:27 AM
Although I do not like to speak in public, my son talked me into taking some of my items to show his 1st grade class. I had a model of the shuttle. The teacher asked me
"When was the last time the space shuttle landed on the moon?" I felt bad but had to tell her the shuttle cannot go to the moon just low earth orbit.Mike Z |
Philip
Member Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 08-10-2008 03:13 AM
Amazing indeed and then we didn't talk about mistakes in the evening news if it comes to subjects on astronomy or spaceflight.But then again, Barringer crater in Arizona - USA is named "Meteor" crater. We all know it should be at least meteorite crater Meteoroid tumbles in space. Meteor is the streak of light when a meteoroid burns in Earth atmosphere. Meteorite is what is left on the ground... |
Delta7
Member Posts: 1505
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 08-10-2008 09:09 AM
It's one thing to be massively uninformed about the technicalities and detailed history of manned spaceflight, but to not realize that we stopped going to the moon decades ago is just plain clueless. That's like believing the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor in 1962 or Dick Cheney is the coach of the Dallas Cowboys. I mean, how hard is it to pick up a newspaper now and then or watch one of the myriad news programs on TV these days? I may not be a War Historian, but I know enough to know that Custer wasn't taken out by a bazooka round in the Battle of Little Big Horn! |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 08-10-2008 10:29 AM
I don't think there is anything wrong with people being ignorant of an issue as long as they strive to change the ignorance into information.I believe a museum is where people go to get educated and get things straight as well as see the historical items that made the history. I've not had the opportunity to do it, but I'd certainly correct something I heard that was incorrect. People just shouldn't leave a museum with the wrong information. If the signage isn't enough to correct the misinformation then any other resource should, otherwise the ignorance just continues. |
spacecraft films
Member Posts: 802
From: Columbus, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted 08-10-2008 10:38 AM
quote:
Originally posted by cspg:
What's the problem here? That everybody isn't as knowledgeable as collectSPACE members about space history? If so, you're asking for a lot.
Actually, I don't think that is the problem at all. Many times I have been with my children in situations in which they will ask me a question on a subject for which I do not know the answer. I say "I don't know." This is a perfectly acceptable answer. I follow that (if we are in a museum) by saying "why don't you look at the placard to see what it is or find out its historical significance." Often I will do this even if I know the answer. Why should I do all the work for them? If we are not in a museum I will tell them that I do not know and they should do some more research on the subject to find out. Often I will see them doing so after we return home. When my children were younger we would do so together when we had the opportunity. The problem I have with situations such as described is that if you do not know, then keep your mouth shut, or find out the correct answer. Don't just wing it. Accuracy and fact DO STILL MATTER, and should be taught from early on. I had a coach one time who told us "Practice doesn't make perfect. PERFECT practice makes perfect." There's little value in doing something unless you do it right.
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Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 08-10-2008 12:12 PM
May be a trivial point, but there was some museum whom I won't embarrass by naming it in which I recalled credited Robert Gibson with just four spaceflights. I remember also writing them and pointing it out, but I haven't been back since to see whether or not it got corrected.There was also another time, at a simulated space ride, in which a plaque referred to Mission 41B, which _was_ the tenth space shuttle flight, as STS-10. (There is NASA documentation which refers to 41B by its original name, STS-11....) |
spacecraft films
Member Posts: 802
From: Columbus, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted 08-10-2008 07:24 PM
Whether the placards are correct or not is a completely separate issue.Naturally, as you can see from my posts and history, I support them being well researched and correct. |
John Charles
Member Posts: 339
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 08-10-2008 07:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cspg:
I'm more troubled at the inability and/or unwillingness of knowledgeable people to convey their knowledge in a proper way to the general public. But teaching is probably the toughest job around.
Chris,You make a good point. Our area of interest is highly specialized and of little direct relevance to the lives of the vast majority of US taxpayers, and the even vaster majority of other earthlings. So I try to make the small corrections that can be accommodated, and hope that I am not also too guilty of being certain of things which just ain't so. ------------------
John Charles
Houston, Texas |
dss65
Member Posts: 1156
From: Sandpoint, ID, USA
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted 08-11-2008 08:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
But I also wanted to correct him, showing him the folly in the logic of his deduction and explain why it was a poor decision not to read the full plaque. Ultimately I did not, because I did not want him to lose face with his daughter, especially when he was trying to instill in her an appreciation for history.
(I wanted to respond to this right away, but it's taken a while to get around to this.) I can imagine that that was a very hard decision to make, Robert. The situation just begged for a correction. I think, though, that you made the right choice, saving face for the father. I'm not sure what I would have done.
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Don |
tegwilym
Member Posts: 2331
From: Sturgeon Bay, WI
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 08-12-2008 01:38 PM
Ugh! This thread makes me cringe....I was at the Museum of Flight a while back waiting for some event to start. There was a docent there that was an "acquaintance" of one of our good docent friends. We started talking about the moon landing, and he immediately started spewing about how it was a hoax and faked. My girlfriend turned around and went into the bookstore leaving me there with this dork. She later said that she had to avoid a scene and had to get away from him before she took him out. Hehe! I forget how I got out of that one, but I did. Tom
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thump
Member Posts: 575
From: washington dc usa
Registered: May 2004
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posted 08-12-2008 02:15 PM
Sounds like he should not be a docent there. If only Bonnie Dunbar had heard him, or would hear him.
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stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 08-12-2008 02:20 PM
Tom, someone who works at a museum about flight and space exploration says that the moon landings were faked? That's just appalling. What if he says to dozens of visitors a day "I'll tell you the REAL story." I hate to sound like someone fiendishly helping the cover-up, but if he can't do his job he should be fired. I just went to the Museum of Flight web site and read this about a new exhibit called "Space: Exploring the New Frontier":"Follow in the bootprints of the 12 men who've had the privilege of setting foot on the Moon. See the Lunar Rover parked and ready for exploration, while, overhead, the Lunar Module makes its graceful ascent to dock with Command Module 007. See real Moon rocks, brought back from Apollo 12 and uncover what secrets they hold." What is he telling visitors about all this? Steve P.S. Although I will say that if one could "[S]ee the Lunar Rover parked and ready for exploration, while, overhead, the Lunar Module makes its graceful ascent to dock with Command Module 007", then whoever is still with the Lunar Rover is going to have a really, really bad day. |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 08-12-2008 02:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stsmithva:
someone who works at a museum about flight and space exploration says that the moon landings were faked? That's just appalling.
This ranks up there with the Science Museum in London allowing moon hoax books to be sold in the book store that is inside the museum. When queried, they told me that they like to give "both sides of the story," something which their Gene-Cernan-costume-reenactor also endorsed online.To me, this was appalling. Sometimes there simply isn't another side to the story. This was a couple of years ago now, and hopefully they have stopped - but if anyone is in London and goes by the bookstore... please have a look, I'd be most curious... |
MarylandSpace
Member Posts: 1336
From:
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 08-12-2008 03:38 PM
Machodoc, I tend to follow your method to "gently" get into the converasation and make the "corrections" but to also add some other information about the artifact or make comparisons to one nearby.We must share our knowledge but be gentle and not embarrass anyone. Garry |
WAWalsh
Member Posts: 809
From: Cortlandt Manor, NY
Registered: May 2000
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posted 08-12-2008 05:18 PM
The worst along these lines that I have heard was at the Onizuka Center for International Astronomy on Mauna Kea in HI. The telescopes were out and a boy about 12 years old turns to one of the hosts and asks if anyone has ever been to another planet. Before the guide could answer, the kid's mother chimes in with "Of course they have honey, they landed on the Sun." |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-12-2008 05:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by WAWalsh:
...they landed on the Sun.
Of course they did. And how did they stay cool? They landed at night...
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Lou Chinal
Member Posts: 1306
From: Staten Island, NY
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 08-12-2008 06:46 PM
stsmithva-"I'll tell you the REAL story" This sounds a little like "Grissom blew the hatch, Carpenter scewed up the landing, See & Bassett were killed doing a buzz job." But that was talked about in another post. Robert- Everyone knows you have to land on the Sun at night. Thats the only way to do it. -Lou |
micropooz
Member Posts: 1512
From: Washington, DC, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 08-12-2008 07:32 PM
Now, Robert, even though you are the esteemed leader of us space geeks, I think you missed the important fact that we could also land on the sun during an eclipse... |
Mike Dixon
Member Posts: 1397
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003
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posted 08-12-2008 08:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by micropooz:
Now, Robert, even though you are the esteemed leader of us space geeks, I think you missed the important fact that we could also land on the sun during an eclipse...
How's that possible? You can't see it !! |
John Charles
Member Posts: 339
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 08-12-2008 08:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stsmithva:
...P.S. Although I will say that if one could "[S]ee the Lunar Rover parked and ready for exploration, while, overhead, the Lunar Module makes its graceful ascent to dock with Command Module 007", then whoever is still with the Lunar Rover is going to have a really, really bad day.
Worse than you suggested. CM-007 was a non-flying spacecraft that was floating around in the Gulf of Mexico in April 1968 for habitability tests by Lovell, Roosa and Duke (see photo s68-31882). So, even if you were on the LM ascent stage and not watching it from below, your ride home was probably rusted and corroded... Apollo 12 flew on CSM-108--how did they get 007 out of that? ------------------
John Charles
Houston, Texas |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 08-12-2008 11:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by WAWalsh:
...they landed on the Sun.
Although very funny posts, it reminds me of a conference held here at CERN about 20 years ago with one moonwalker present (presumably Aldrin). The guest panel and the audience were space geeks to the bone, except maybe for this lady, who, when the Q&A part of the conference was in order, asked a "silly" question (silly for any space geek/nerd). Everybody laughed, the audience, the panel and the moonwalker. She became furious (with very good reason) that she had been treated this way and she walked out. I was embarrassed and ashamed to be present in this conference hall, in view of the arrogance, disdain, ostracism, borderline discriminatory attitudes from this space geek group.Unfortunately (or not) this can be applied to any group, social, political, cultural, religious etc... End result? I'm against any group whatsoever. Chris. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 08-13-2008 07:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by cspg:
...End result? I'm against any group whatsoever.
Does that include the group of space enthusiasts who frequent this forum? ------------------
John Capobianco
Camden DE |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 08-13-2008 09:26 AM
Well, in a way, it does as I'm not a space collector! And as long as I don't need to be tattooed with the collectSPACE logo on my forehead, I should be around. And you love when I'm messing with your brain, c'mon, admit it!  Chris. |
tncmaxq
Member Posts: 287
From: New Haven, CT USA
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 08-13-2008 11:28 AM
On a similar subject, a coworker recently sent me yet another one of those humorous sayings lists that make the rounds of the net over and over. This one was "things overheard in 1955." It included "they say we might have men walking on the moon by the end of the century. They even have guys called astronauts training for it now down in Texas." Un huh. I know there were no astronauts in 1955, but when did JSC open, 1963? But if this appeared on the net, it must be true right? Ha ha. |
LoneStarScouter
unregistered
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posted 08-13-2008 01:18 PM
I always try to be careful what I say when I'm talking to kids. I want to make sure that the information I pass on is accurate. I did a presentation for my son's 3rd grade class last year with the assistance of a time line that I helped him do for a science project. It was very helpful to have the visual aid because I was able to touch on each portion briefly and still get the information across accurately with the sources right in front of me. |
tegwilym
Member Posts: 2331
From: Sturgeon Bay, WI
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 08-13-2008 01:57 PM
I'm pretty sure that guy was associated with the aviation half WWII part of the Museum, but still... my girlfriend was about to do a "Buzz Aldrin punch" on that guy, but left me standing there squirming.The facts are easy. We landed on the moon, 400,000 people wouldn't hold that a secret for 40 years. Hey, we finally found that the famous Bigfoot video and Loch Ness monster photos were faked but that was just a very small group that came up with that. T. |
ColinBurgess
Member Posts: 2031
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 08-13-2008 03:50 PM
There's a long-running TV ad down here in Australia that best exemplifies with great humour some of the comments made on this subject. In the ad a young boy is doing his homework while being driven to school by his father. He asks his dad why they built the Great Wall of China, and the father (really struggling fior an answer) says that it was built by Emporer Nasi Goreng to keep the rabbits out of China. In the next shot the beaming little boy is standing before his class about to give a talk on why the Chinese built the Great Wall. Everyone here loves the ad, but it typifies why you should not try to invent history when talking with young people. |
Machodoc
Member Posts: 207
From: DE
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 08-13-2008 08:50 PM
"The facts are easy. We landed on the moon, 400,000 people wouldn't hold that a secret for 40 years."What was it that Stalin either said or was attributed to him - "Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead". The family I talked with at the NASM was the only English speaking group I encountered while checking out the spacecraft. Many other families were there, none of which I could understand. You know, I'm always amazed at the smallness of the MGA vehicles. I'm 6'5", so that speaks for itself. Still, I'd love nothing better than to try and ease myself down into an Apollo cockpit just once. I still smile remembering the Apollo 7 flight with all of the descriptions about the "roominess" of the Apollo. Given the space constraints of Mercury and Gemini that was totally understandable, but man oh man, three guys in an Apollo for almost two weeks - no matter how you slice it that was very close quarters. That said, I could look into all of the capsules on display for hours and not get bored, utterly confirming my space geek status! |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-13-2008 09:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Machodoc:
Still, I'd love nothing better than to try and ease myself down into an Apollo cockpit just once.
Seems like a visit to the Kansas Cosmosphere is in order...  |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 08-14-2008 10:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ColinBurgess:
He asks his dad why they built the Great Wall of China, and the father (really struggling fior an answer) says that it was built by Emporer Nasi Goreng to keep the rabbits out of China.
OT, but "Nasi Goreng" is Japanese for fried rice...
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Machodoc
Member Posts: 207
From: DE
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 08-14-2008 11:42 AM
Robert, that's pretty cool. You must have felt right at home! I'll have to get out there some day soon. What kind of exhibit is that within? I'll bet my head would be sticking out the hatch! |
Kirsten
Member Posts: 536
From: Delft, Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-14-2008 02:33 PM
In 2000, at the Energiya museum near Moscow, I squeezed myself into a Soyuz capsule together with two other people. Cosy. And I'm not even that tall. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-14-2008 06:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Machodoc:
What kind of exhibit is that within?
It's actually one of the simulators located within the Cosmosphere's Space Camp facilities. I believe they have one of the original Soyuz simulators used for ASTP, too. |
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