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Author
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Topic: Stick and Rudder - Question for pilots
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mikepf
Member Posts: 441
From: San Jose, California, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-05-2006 12:14 PM
   
Hello,
I often hear the term "good stick and rudder man". I am not a pilot, but I do believe I understand what sticks and rudders are and generally how they work. What I'm wondering about is what distinguishes a good stick and rudder pilot from your average pilot. It seems to be a highly regarded and not casually confered title. Most recently I saw a reference to Gordo Cooper being very highly regarded as an outstanding stick and rudder man by the other M7. What exactly do they mean by this term? Any insight into this would be appreciated.
Regards,
Mikie |
november25
Member Posts: 646
From: Douglas, Isle of Man, UK
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 09-05-2006 01:32 PM
Hi- In my beleif- (A Good Stick and Rudder Pilot} is one that goes gentle on these controls. Its like driving a car, too much force on either is not good. Be gentle,just use these as normal- [I was told-quote-} Dont be too HEAVY HANDED- it doesnt need force.
To my thinking the 2 are simular- enought said by me- dont know what my colleages-other PRIVATE PILOTS THINK.
I know my BA friends,all think the same.
regards from
Brenda [PPL IOM] |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-05-2006 01:49 PM
A good stick and rudder pilot means that the pilot has a good feel and sense for the aircraft he is flying without use of all the technology and instrumentation available today or then.Back in aviation's infancy, that's all you had to control the 3 axes of freedom you were given once your wheels were off the ground...stick to control up, down and roll and rudder to control left and right co-ordinated with the stick's control of the other two axes. The pilot had no panel full of gyros to tell him his attitude in relation to Terra firma. He/she was left to their senses, touch and abilities to fly the craft in co-ordinated flight that didn't stress the airframe beyond its abilities to hold together. That's what's meant by a good stick and rudder pilot then and now. A person with a God given knack or a diligently learned ability to control an aircraft in 3D space without the aid of electronics or instrumentation. [Edited by ejectr (September 05, 2006).] |
tegwilym
Member Posts: 2331
From: Sturgeon Bay, WI
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 09-05-2006 02:27 PM
A "good stick" is someone that "wears" the airplane rather than having the plane just take him for a ride.
(My brief definition.)  Tom
ASEL/IFR/CFI/Commerical |
767FO
Member Posts: 269
From: Boca Raton, FL
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 09-05-2006 05:19 PM
A great question which can be answered as follows:Good stick and rudder man=Navy pilot Great stick and rudder man=Air Force pilot Sorry, couldn't resist!...lol [Edited by 767FO (September 05, 2006).] |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-05-2006 05:48 PM
I don't know but I've been told
Navy Wings are made of Gold...I don't know but it's been said...
air force wings are made of lead.... |
767FO
Member Posts: 269
From: Boca Raton, FL
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 09-05-2006 06:47 PM
ejectr,I assume you are (were) a Navy pilot? |
Moonpaws
Member Posts: 685
From: Lee's summit, MO
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 09-05-2006 07:12 PM
Ah, easy question to answer. Someone who can land a washing machine. (Taken from Apollo 13).Vince ASEL/Instrument/Commercial/Airframe and Powerplant |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-05-2006 07:27 PM
767FO...Navy yes...pilot no. Spent a lot of time in and jumping out of helo's in my Navy job. Currently a private pilot, though certainly not a 767 first officer. [Edited by ejectr (September 05, 2006).] |
767FO
Member Posts: 269
From: Boca Raton, FL
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 09-05-2006 08:24 PM
I love teasing the Navy guys...lol. One thing I really miss about the military is the rivalry amongst the services (all in good fun). |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-05-2006 08:26 PM
Always.... |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-05-2006 09:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 767FO:
ejectr,I assume you are (were) a Navy pilot?
A 'Navy Pilot' is someone who guides ships in and out of a harbor as a specialism - a very skilled position, to be sure, but not something you'd want to be calling a Naval Aviator! |
767FO
Member Posts: 269
From: Boca Raton, FL
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 09-05-2006 09:57 PM
Naval Aviator? Sorry, just can't seem to say those words... Besides, most Navy pilots already have a bloated image of themselves without me adding fuel to the fire... |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-06-2006 05:44 AM
No Francis....A "Harbor Pilot" is one who takes ships in and out of port. The Navy only has AVIATORS....no Navy pilots. |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-06-2006 09:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ejectr:
No Francis....A "Harbor Pilot" is one who takes ships in and out of port. The Navy only has AVIATORS....no Navy pilots.
Yes - I think we are essentially saying the same thing? |
star61
Member Posts: 294
From: Bristol UK
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 09-06-2006 11:58 AM
Feel and Finesse......best demonstrated by pilots of the one and only......RAF..  Phil |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-06-2006 01:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by FFrench:
Yes - I think we are essentially saying the same thing?
Now I get the drift.....I didn't read it that way the first time. Was too early in th AM for me to grasp. |
767FO
Member Posts: 269
From: Boca Raton, FL
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 09-06-2006 02:21 PM
The UK has an Air Force?...lol. |
star61
Member Posts: 294
From: Bristol UK
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 09-06-2006 02:52 PM
Cheeky monkey!
Just because we've only got 7 aircraft and a helmet..........but still the best pilots.. |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-06-2006 06:08 PM
Speaking of Air Force, my son passed his Airline Transport Pilot check ride today. Francis, he's the one that you met and took pictures for at the Dave Scott signing when he had Dave sign my "Moonwalkers" litho. |
MCroft04
Member Posts: 1634
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 09-06-2006 06:40 PM
All joking aside, if not for the RAF us Americans might be living a different life. Thanks to all those pilots!!!! |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-06-2006 06:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ejectr:Speaking of Air Force, my son passed his Airline Transport Pilot check ride today. Francis, he's the one that you met and took pictures for at the Dave Scott signing when he had Dave sign my "Moonwalkers" litho.
CONGRATULATIONS to him!! A great achievement.
That will have been the day I was interviewing Scott for this piece: http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-100402a.html |
mikepf
Member Posts: 441
From: San Jose, California, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-06-2006 06:58 PM
Thanks for all the great answers to my question. Information AND entertainment. That's why I love collectSPACE!
Regards,
Mikie |
MCroft04
Member Posts: 1634
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 09-06-2006 09:40 PM
"CONGRATULATIONS to him!! A great achievement.
That will have been the day I was interviewing Scott for this piece: http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-100402a.html quoted from Francis FrenchFrancis, Great writing!!!; I must have been traveling when you wrote this as I missed it. One of the comments I recall from Al Worden at San Antonio is that Dave did not warn Al and Jim about what to expect during the flight (Dave had already flown twice). During initial staging into earth orbit, Al exclaimed that "gee that was a rough staging-didn't expect that". Dave responded, "oh yea, I forgot to to tell you about that". Secondly, regarding the formation of the moon, Jack Schmitt does not agree with the theory that the moon formed when an object struck the earth. His reasoning is chemically the earth is too different from the moon, even though the basic rock types are the same. I don't know enough to take a position, but I respect Jack enough to consider his ideas. |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-07-2006 01:14 AM
Thank you - glad you enjoyed it! I have a few other interviews on CollectSPACE (Wendt, Schirra, Shepherd...)Indeed, it seems that if there is one thing exploring the moon gave us, it was more questions, rather than answers... which is usual in science and not necessarily a bad thing! All the more reason to go back... |
767FO
Member Posts: 269
From: Boca Raton, FL
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 09-07-2006 09:36 AM
ejectr,Tell your son congrats! Quite an accomplishment. You should be very proud. |
albatron@aol.com
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posted 09-07-2006 05:15 PM
I was going to say even JOHN (767FO) would agree getting your ATP is very much an accomplishment - please pass on my regards to him. As for: "All joking aside, if not for the RAF us Americans might be living a different life. Thanks to all those pilots!!!!" I do agree the pilots in the RAF during WWII were outstanding and some of THE best, I'd like to think WE had a small hand in it too.
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ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-07-2006 05:29 PM
John, Al, Francis...thanks. I will pass on your good wishes to him. I am very proud of my Air Force son.[Edited by ejectr (September 07, 2006).] |
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