|
Author
|
Topic: Three miles away
|
mensax
Member Posts: 861
From: Virginia
Registered: Apr 2002
|
posted 11-22-2005 05:18 PM
   
I believe I'm correct in that the closest viewing area to a launch is three miles away. I realize that that's for safety... but to me three miles away just seems too far. I'd love to be within a mile of a launch.I was wondering if anyone had ever accidently or on purpose (hiding in a culvert pipe) witnessed a "close up launch", and what the effects would be of having a front row seat. Noah |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
|
posted 11-22-2005 05:26 PM
It's happened at the Russian manned launches a lot post-USSR. There are the officials at the viewing area, then some brave souls who sneak over the steppe with cameras and get up close - sometimes ridiculously close.FF |
Rick Boos
Member Posts: 851
From: Celina, Ohio
Registered: Feb 2000
|
posted 11-22-2005 06:19 PM
A couple of guys tried during a scrub attempt during GT-5. They were caught on camera during live (CBS) TV coverage (in the overgrowth) and were apprehended. If memory serves me correctly they got to Pad 19 by swimming in. Having been at the Cape and in the overgrowth myself over the years, these guys were in more immediate danger from the snakes and wild critters that inhabit the area then by the potential danger of a Titan 2 rocket. Brings back memories! |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
|
posted 11-22-2005 06:20 PM
Francis is correct, though even the viewing area for the Soyuz is much closer than 3.5 miles; when I went to Baikonur, we were a little more than a mile away for the launch of Soyuz TM-34. (A colleague was crouching in a bunker only a few yards from the pad - his handheld camcorder's video is absolutely a blast to watch.) And if I am not mistaken, a few members of NASA's pad close-out team are stationed at approx. 1.5 miles from the pad in the case of an emergency during the launch of the Space Shuttle. |
Ben
Member Posts: 1896
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: May 2000
|
posted 11-22-2005 07:39 PM
Well, your statement is correct for Shuttle only. You can watch Delta 2 launches from 6000 feet.I know a few people at the Cape who have said that even if *given* the opportunity to watch near the pad, they wouldn't do it. The sound will severely damage your hearing. In general though, a few camera trackers have been withing the limits. Way back in the 1960-70s there was a cameraman stationed near complex's 40 and 41 in a specially built bunker within 1000 feet of the pad that had an open cutout built into it for pointing the camera. Also, don't forget that blockhouses were used up until Feb 3rd this year when the final launch from pad 36 took place. |
albatron@aol.com
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
|
posted 11-22-2005 09:05 PM
During Mercury-Redstone launches, anyones who
been on the tour to the old MCC, can see how close THEY were. Pretty close, like REAL close. But the guy who probably takes the prize of all, was poor Sam Beddingfield. He was responsible for a last second procedure on the gantry and scurried back to the blockhouse in the last minute or so.......and stood OUTSIDE but BEHIND the building. Once the doors were sealed they wouldn't open them until after the launch. If you went to our show at the Space Walk of Fame you got to meet Sam, or go to the Space Walk of Fame as he's still a volunteer there. I've had dinner with Sam on more than 1 occasion, and he has many fantastic stories to tell. And oh, he was the first person hired by NASA AT the Space Center. |
Ben
Member Posts: 1896
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: May 2000
|
posted 11-22-2005 11:00 PM
The Mercury mission control center is about 4000 feet from pads 5/6. The guys who worked the blockhouses, expecially those built with windows such as those at 5/6 and 26 among others, are the ones I'd like to hear tell stories! |
LT Scott Schneeweis
unregistered
|
posted 11-23-2005 12:43 AM
While never having had the pleasure of watching a live Nasa launch from any distance, have been within 30 feet of a Tomahawk Cruise Missile and several SM2 launches from my last CG (Guided Missile Cruiser) while standing bridge watch...thats about as close as anybody could possibly want to be to any launch...the spent propellant will give you more then a bad hair day...we spend hours cleaning up the mess off the focsal and applying new non-skid after every launch...------------------
Scott Schneeweis
URL http://www.SPACEAHOLIC.com/
|
Moonpaws
Member Posts: 685
From: Lee's summit, MO
Registered: Jan 2005
|
posted 11-23-2005 01:44 AM
Scott, forgive this former enlisted person correcting an officer, but I believe you meant to spell (focsal) forecastle. |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
|
posted 11-23-2005 05:52 AM
"Roger ball...! |
LT Scott Schneeweis
unregistered
|
posted 11-23-2005 10:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Moonpaws:
Scott, forgive this former enlisted person correcting an officer, but I believe you meant to spell (focsal) forecastle.
Its a proper varient but I do stand corrected on spelling (should have been spelled "FOCSLE")
fore·cas·tle Audio pronunciation of "fo'c'sle" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fksl, fôrksl, fr-) also fo'c's'le (fksl)
n. 1. The section of the upper deck of a ship located at the bow forward of the foremast.
2. A superstructure at the bow of a merchant ship where the crew is housed. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2912
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
|
posted 11-23-2005 12:42 PM
Just for the record, various support people are positioned 1200 feet and less than a mile from Complex 39 during a Shuttle launch and from all the prior Apollo missions from the 39 launch site. For our friend Al H. in regards to Sam Beddingfield being OUTSIDE the Mercury-Redstone blockhouse during an actual liftoff, is certainly news to me, even though Sam was a member of the original STG team. I'll phone him soon. For our friend Ben, in a prior post here, I was never aware that any cameraman was situated only 1000 feet in a special camera bunker between or near the old Titan 40/41 pads during an actual launch. Again, news to me, as all manned camera support equipment was located a bit downrange on the Cape side; however, of course, other camera units were closer to the pads that were automated, but never manned by a crew. Do you have anymore information on this? There is another gentleman, that I'll mention later in this post, that had a very special assignment in covering the STS-1 launch in 1981. More to come. |
Ben
Member Posts: 1896
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: May 2000
|
posted 11-23-2005 03:38 PM
Well, I don't know how to provide more info...the Lockheed officials have mentioned it a few times. Along beach road there, between 40 and 41, is a hill with a small bunker built into and under it, and they say they would have at least one guy stationed there in the old days to shoot the launch. Immediately after liftoff he would duck down and protect his ears until the rocket was out of sight. |
Apollo-Soyuz
Member Posts: 1205
From: Shady Side, Md
Registered: Sep 2004
|
posted 11-23-2005 05:16 PM
I was at KSC for the launch of STS-67 on March 2, 1995 at the Press Site which is 3 miles from Pad-39. We saw SSME ignition, heard nothing until the shuttle cleared the tower and then the shock wave hits you in the chest as it ascended. It felt like somebody was punching you in the chest. It was my first launch at it was a night launch 1:37 AM in the morning.  ------------------
John Macco
Vice President
Space Unit
Shady Side, Md. [This message has been edited by Apollo-Soyuz (edited November 23, 2005).] |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3118
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
|
posted 11-24-2005 04:54 PM
Apollo-Soyuz,
I think you'll find that the KSC press-site is about 3.5 miles from Pad 39A. I saw the Apollo-Soyuz launch in 1975, watching from a distance of about 3.3 miles from Pad 39B. This was slightly closer than viewers at the press-site, and the viewing angle was better (the rocket was fully lit from behind, while viewers at the press-site saw it partly in shadow). |
4allmankind
Member Posts: 1043
From: Dallas
Registered: Jan 2004
|
posted 11-28-2005 04:21 PM
Al H - I am pleased you mentioned Sam Beddingfield on this board.When my father and I went down to your show, we were walking around the museum minding our own business when this imposing figure walks up to us. He had the biggest smile I have ever seen. He said, "Hi, Im Sam." We introduced ourselves and thought nothing of it. As my Dad and I are walking around, this guy Sam begins to follow us and tell us about each item we were looking at. At first, I was a bit concerned about who this guy was and why he was following us- he had no museum nametag or shirt etc. Then, after each item, I would elbow my Dad and say this guy has to be "somebody". Within the next 2 sentances, Sam referred to Gus Grissom as "Gus" and the Mercury 7 as "the boys" to which I immediatly stopped him and said, "time out- did you know Gus Grissom"? He then proceeded to tell us how he was one of the first NASA employees and how he and Gus were very close buddies (even before NASA). I said, PROVE IT- To which he showed me 3 photo books from his collection. My god, I was floored. The kicker was a photo of he with JFK at the cape to which I insisted he photo copy for me to autograph to me. He kindly obliged and reminded me that he was really "nothing special". I made sure he knew that was not true. I was floored at how down to earth this man was. He truly made the trip for my father and I. We still talk about him often. He must have spent 2 hours walking my Dad and I around the museum. He told me so many stories- including how he was one of the employees that tried to replicate the Mercury blown hatch elbow theory. It is a fantastic memory- I hope to see Sam again on my next KSC trip planned for early 2006. I consider people like Sam just as important as the astronauts. Jay |
Rick Boos
Member Posts: 851
From: Celina, Ohio
Registered: Feb 2000
|
posted 11-29-2005 07:49 AM
Jay, Nice post about Sam. Sam and I are close friends and go back quite a few years. He is a great guy and would do anything for you, and he does know his stuff! As he told you, he and Gus were great friends and they go back to the pre Mercury days when stationed in Dayton at WPAFB, both were pilots. Grissom tried to talk Sam into applying for the Mercury Astronaut program as he had done. Long story short, their paths crossed again when Gus was selected as a Mercury Astronaut and Sam later went to work at the Mechanical Systems Division at the Cape. He and Gus continued their friendship. Just for the record, Sam was the guy who gave Al Shepard the Coloring book and box of crayons at the pad for his Freedom 7 flight so Al wouldn't get bored during the flight.(read about it in "We Seven") This was a take off from another of those early comedy records. It was Sam that handed Dr. Douglas the crossword puzzle book to give Gus as he boarded the elevator at Pad 5 on Grissom's Liberty Bell 7 flight. It was Sam that installed the personal parachute in Grissom's Liberty Bell 7 spacecraft at Gus' request. Also, you mention that Sam was involved in the investigation of the premature hatch detonation. For the record he headed the investigation! Also he was a key player into the Apollo 1 investigation at the onset, and later he headed it also. So as you can see, Sam is one of those Key people in the early days that is often forgotten. Even in retirement he volunteers his services at the Cape, and also is involved in a Museum project. |
albatron@aol.com
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
|
posted 11-29-2005 08:14 AM
Thanks Jay and Rick,Sam is truly an icon of those early days, and the Space Walk of Fame is very fortunate indeed to have him. The good thing is, ask a simple question and he'll go on forever - the history is something you cannot beat. Sam does not do anything at the Cape per se, anymore since his retirement, and I do hope the SWOF can get things together and survive as for Sam and his history alone, it would be a travesty to shut down. Now that people like Ken Havekotte are (finally) on the board - hopefully there will be some more POSITIVE direction. Cheers, Al |
4allmankind
Member Posts: 1043
From: Dallas
Registered: Jan 2004
|
posted 11-29-2005 04:35 PM
Out of curiosity- Has anyone ever collected a list of the surviving early NASA employees such as Sam Beddingfield? I have a very early photo of the cape which I would love to get signed by as many of them as possible- via mail.Jay |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2912
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
|
posted 12-01-2005 07:03 AM
For Ben, back online/CS for a moment, I don't know why some Lockheed folks told you that there was an underground bunker in which a cameraman was stationed during Titan launches...and only 1,000 feet away from the pad! There is a Universal Camera Station, #3, on the old Cape Road (now Phillips Parkway) situated between the old Titan pads 40/41, which is about half a mile from each pad. One of the main camera systems at that time located on the camera mound was a standard fixed metric camera, known as the CZR-1, that was combined with other camera units (mainly the RC-2, 5 and 5A). They recorded the azimuth, elevation and roll angles for the first several thousand feet of a missile flight. As you know, there is a variety of camera equipment and systems that provide launch support, but the only nearby unit that I know of--located about 1,000 feet from the rocket on the pad, is the Mobile Optical Tracker (MOT) that is a remote--not manned--controlled system for use within Pads 40/41 and also 39A/B -- all within the immediate launch danger zone. One of the manned camera units is the Mobile Contraves Cinetheodolite System (MCCS) that is a metric tracking instrument with a 35mm single frame camera movement used for data recording. But that operator is downrange from the firing pad and certainly not in a bunker 1,000 feet away. If you ever get anymore info from those Lockheed folks, Ben, please let me know and thanks. Al H. (How are you)? I did talk to Sam B. for a few moments as I was intrigued by what you reported earlier on this thread. Sam told me that he never was "outside" a blockhouse during a launch, but that he knew of someone that was during an early unmanned liftoff. Guenter W. told me, as I first thought, that nobody was permitted that close ("exposed") to an actual launch area as pad safety would had never permitted such a thing, however, perhaps Sam can provide more details to us later on, as I am still intrigued by such an incident. |
Rick Boos
Member Posts: 851
From: Celina, Ohio
Registered: Feb 2000
|
posted 12-01-2005 10:22 AM
I know in talking to Sam and Guenter that they went out to "safe" MR-1 which was a very dangerous feat, but they never told me about being locked out durring a launch. |
albatron@aol.com
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
|
posted 12-01-2005 02:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
Al H. (How are you)? I did talk to Sam B. for a few moments as I was intrigued by what you reported earlier on this thread. Sam told me that he never was "outside" a blockhouse during a launch, but that he knew of someone that was during an early unmanned liftoff. Guenter W. told me, as I first thought, that nobody was permitted that close ("exposed") to an actual launch area as pad safety would had never permitted such a thing, however, perhaps Sam can provide more details to us later on, as I am still intrigued by such an incident.
Good Ken, thanks, and I hope YOU and Teresa are well.
Sam is an interesting guy as you know, and his memory is at times, not the best. Bill O'Donnell, Don Brady and a couple of others were with me and Sam at the BBQ (the old Fat Boys on US1 in Titusville) when he shared that story. He may have referred to "someone else" but related how he had to do it as he was required to do something (MY memory is bad on that LOL) on the pad immediately before launch and they had the doors shut by then. But you know, I wonder if he was referring to Norris Gray?
|
advertisement