posted 08-24-2003 11:18 PM               

I haven't posted in a while, but this show got the interest sparked again!!!!

Even astronauts have heroes!

posted 08-25-2003 12:11 AM               

To be honest, I went in with low expectations. Because he is so available, agreeable, and accessible, Gene is quoted and interviewed so often in documentaries. I thought before it started, "What else could he possibly say?"

I'm glad I was wrong. There was SO much more to learn from the Flight Director/Mission Controllers' perspective.

The show featured excellent production, very descriptive graphics, and incredible interviews. I do wish we might have heard a bit more directly from John Hodge, Pete Frank, and Milt Windler, but there was extensive involvement from Steve Bales and John Aaron, which was a real treat.

Bravo. This one was WELL-DONE.

posted 08-25-2003 09:15 AM               

Anyway, I'm waiting for "Failure is not an Option", hoping that there might be some new insights (I'm only half way through the book). Finally Apollo 13 ends and boom there into "Failure.." almost immediately. I barely had time to flip on the VCR! I enjoyed it although most of it was familiar to me. I guess a sign that you're a hopeless space fanatic is when you start to say the next line from a particular flight out loud. It drives my family crazy that I can't stop saying "...we have an main bus-B undervolt.." everytime I hear the "Houston, we had a problem" line.

posted 08-25-2003 12:17 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Cliff Lentz:
It drives my family crazy that I can't stop saying "...we have an main bus-B undervolt.." everytime I hear the "Houston, we had a problem" line.

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Good Lord, Cliff...and I thought the families of the Apollo 13 crewmembers had it bad...

posted 08-25-2003 03:34 PM               

Good advice. I bought a copy (signed, thanks!) and found it to be an extremely valuable resource. The CD Rom is incredible-Sy, you included some very rare anecdotal information that I haven't seen anywhere else.

A question, Sy: When these sorts of documentaries are made, who determines whom is contacted and asked for information or interviews? How does that work? I ask because I read your book from cover to cover and it seems to me like you played a much larger part during the Apollo 13 crisis than was mentioned last night.

Is the information presented in documentaries largely a function of what and from whom the producers seek out in the way of information? I certainly don't wish to pry or ask for information you'd rather not relate. It's just that most folks here have seen most (if not all) of the extant documentaries on the space program, and I'd be willing to bet this is a question that has crossed quite a few minds.

In your experience as one who has a unique perspective- you were actually there when all of this happened- Is there much "spin" in documentaries on the space program?

Thanks, Sy!

posted 08-25-2003 03:35 PM               

It looked like the show only talked about you for a short time and it went something like.... "the explosion happened with you at the helm - now call Aaron" I imagine you deserve a bit more credit than that....

posted 08-25-2003 06:26 PM               

Example, I understand Neil and Dave solved the problem without intervention from the ground. They had no time to waste and they were out of range if I recall correctly. I do recall hearing a sketchy radio transmission from the crew, but I don't remember if that was during the event or just after.

Mission Control did guide them in to an early landing.

While Apollo 13 had to time to evolve into a multi-day drama, GT-8 was pretty quick if I recall. Just a matter of about 3 - 6 minutes from start to regaining control. The GT-8 save seemed amazing to me. The steps that the crew went through under the conditions they were under is utterly amazing.

------------------
Warm Regards

Douglas Henry

posted 08-26-2003 06:21 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cliff Lentz:
I don't recall the Flight Director on Gemini 8, but I'm sure it wasn't Gene Kranz. I think that's the direction the show was trying to take. I haven't got around to finishing Gene’s book yet so I don't know if he mentioned GT-8.

In an early episode of "From the Earth to the Moon" the flight director has an English accent and there appeared to be some dropouts in communication, but Gemini was filled with dropouts. I have to break out my tapes and figure out who that was.

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posted 08-26-2003 07:08 PM               

Gene Kranz, while one of my heroes, did not tell the inside story of the soldier flight controller in his book—that was one of my motivations for writing “Apollo EECOM: Journey Of A Lifetime.” So the documentary was a fair representation of his book. Since I knew that he had plenty of his favorites helping him: John Aaron, John Llewellyn, Ed Fendell, and Jerry Bostic, et al, and I was in the midst of writing the manuscript for my book, I told the producer several times that I declined to participate. Perhaps that was the reason my role was diminished? Who is to know? In retrospect, I am delighted with my decision. BTW, I was the Lead EECOM on most Apollo lunar missions and ASTP.

However, I will say that Gene’s “Failure Is Not An Option” and my “Apollo EECOM: Journey Of A Lifetime” make wonderful companion books. I will make a strong recommendation to everyone to obtain a copy of the PBS documentary: “Apollo 13: To The Edge and Back.” The producer got Gene Kranz to cry like a baby at the end. I’m sure it’s still available on videotape—it’s a must for your library.

As to the query re when “Failure” would be shown in the UK, I would e-mail the Lone Wolf producer, Rushmore DeNooyer : RushmoreD@aol.com

posted 08-26-2003 09:08 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sy Liebergot:
Rob & Jake, et al:
I will make a strong recommendation to everyone to obtain a copy of the PBS documentary: ?Apollo 13: To The Edge and Back.? The producer got Gene Kranz to cry like a baby at the end.

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Mr Liebergot, I have a copy of this, and I thought it was a very moving moment when Gene Kranz broke down at the end of the show. I am also now keenly aware that your book is not a redundent retelling of the remarkable job that you participated in. I had decided to pass on it. I will now seek out a copy for my library.
I also recall your part in "Apollo 13 to the edge and
back." I was gripped by the moment when you recreated the death grip you put on the console handles in front of you. My thanks to your sir for your efforts, and service to your country.

Ed Beck

------------------
"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Psalms 19:1 NIV

posted 08-26-2003 09:20 PM            

http://store.aetv.com/html/catalog/bp01_1.jhtml;jsessionid=BZT1XA1UCJ4 TMQOXHDDSAO0B022MOIY4?id=cat560002

You can order a DVD etc., and probably get it delivered to your home before anyone can tell you if you'll be able catch it on the tube!

Good luck!

Rizz

BTW-- OMEGA took out a 2 page ad in this weeks TIME mag, and gave themselves some of ther credit for the safe return of A13.

posted 08-26-2003 09:57 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sy Liebergot:
I told the producer several times that I declined to participate. Perhaps that was the reason my role was diminished? Who is to know? In retrospect, I am delighted with my decision.

---

Why would you be delighted? The producers obviously found it easier to build a story around people who wanted to contribute to the documentary. Not only would your role have been greater, but it would have given you more exposure. For example, no offense but I had not heard of you until you began posting on CollectSpace. I don't see how a choice to not participate in what turned out to be such a great documentary can be viewed as a good decision.

posted 08-26-2003 10:06 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Scott:
For example, no offense but I had not heard of you until you began posting on CollectSpace.

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posted 08-26-2003 11:01 PM               

Thanks for clarifying for Scott's sake, but please rest assured the rest of us have darn well known EXACTLY who you are for years and years. Your reputation and historic role in Apollo well preceded your presence in this forum. We're thrilled you are here.

posted 08-27-2003 07:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by BLACKARROW:
("Ship"?? Why do Americans say "ship" when they mean post by air-mail??).

---

It's probably shorter to say

Not to put anymore salt in your wound, but they replayed "Failure" again last night.

I made a VHS copy of it, happy to 'post by air mail' you a copy if you can play a VHS tape.

posted 08-28-2003 12:38 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scott:
And concerning recent developments, I think if we had a NASA culture like there was in Sy's day, and we would have set our minds to it, we would have been able to rescue the crewmembers of Columbia.

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I think it is a telling thing when Story Musgrave, in the History Channel's 'Modern Marvels' episode on Columbia, says that he would have preferred going into space on Mercury, Gemini or Apollo because the craft were safer.

posted 08-28-2003 01:18 PM               

I saw that. I am one of the biggest admirers of Story. Can you imagine how he must feel, having joined NASA in 1960s so that he could walk on Mars (his words), only to wait for endless years to fly on the shuttle? But he found his own way to make a difference - our breathtaking views of Mars released yesterday from the repaired Hubble are a testiment to the contributions he has made.

The Shuttle is not only unsafe but a giant money pit. It takes $500,000,000 just to launch it. And how many times has it flown? Way over 100 times. God it's depressing to think what else we could have done with that kind of money. With few exceptions, notably the Hubble, it hasn't contributed much of anything IMHO.

And something else Story mentioned - the solid rocket boosters. No one talks about that. When is one of those things going to blow up? Did you know the people that make the model rocket motors have a 5% failure rate on their "D" size motors because of cracking in the propellant. Extrapolate that out to an SRB, basically a controlled explosion hundreds of feet high. Picture there being an accidental crack in the SRB propellant, either pre-existing or caused by some launch related incident. It goes and the fuel tank is next to it - forget it. And then there will be the 20/20 hindsight - "why the hell were we launching people with SRBs??"

posted 08-28-2003 01:53 PM               

Regarding SRBs, I don't think a propellant crack would necessarily cause an explosion, but it would definitely cause an increase in thrust that could cause control problems.

Regarding the 107 rescue option using Atlantis, I figure there would only be a 50% chance of ANYONE making it back, but I think they would have tried it anyway if they knew the extent of the damage. As Blackarrow pointed out in the discussion about a LM batt failure, they wouldn't have just folded their arms and waited for the worst to happen.

posted 08-28-2003 03:59 PM               

Spaceflight will never be safe. Never. Never. Never. But it can be "saf-ER". If we're not going to use our brains and our financial resources at the same time to support at least basic efforts in space, then we should just admit to ourselves that we no longer have what it takes as a human species to reach for the stars and we should just dig large holes in the sand, stick our heads in and pretend we all politicians.

I pass the soapbox.

posted 08-28-2003 11:15 PM            

I will loan you the copy. Enjoy it, I even deleted all of the commercials.

When you are finished with it, you can 'post by air mail' it back to me.'