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Author
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Topic: Aurora Auction
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Bob M
Member Posts: 1744
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 05-23-2003 02:24 PM
   
There has been a good bit of discussion concerning the extreme rarity but recent availability of autographs from the ill-fated Soyuz 11 crew. It has been generally agreed that the Soyuz 11 crew signed very few, if any, autographs prior to their doomed flight. But seven lots (1350 thru 1356) in the Aurora auction contain autographs of all three Soyuz 11 crew members together or at least Patsayev or Dobrovolsky. The EVs are as high as $2,500-$3,500 and many would feel that it would be highly unsual to see even one lot offered by this rare crew, let alone seven at one time and in one place. Many would feel that official documentation would be required & provided before anyone should bid on such extreme rarities. Bob Mc. |
spacecowboy
Member Posts: 75
From: Chicago IL
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 05-23-2003 10:50 PM
It would be nice to know if any of the Soyuz 11 crew autographs were the real McCoy. Any Soviet Experts out there? I agree with Bob that all these items are suspect unless we actually know the source of them.
Adam |
ALAIN
Member Posts: 355
From: GENT, Belgium
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 05-24-2003 09:42 AM
Soyuz-11 signatures are always "suspicious" at the least !
Do we have to register for the Aurora auction ? |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 05-24-2003 11:20 AM
I am completely with LT Scott Schneeweis regarding these unreasonable auction commissions. When you have eBay and others charging pennies on the dollar when it comes to commissions (and before you start arguing that *eBay* has forgeries and autopens, well...I won't go there...), it goes against and all common sense to still have these outrageous 15%-20% double premiums. But as long as people continue to pay them they will continue to be charged. I for one will continue to vote with my wallet. |
mensclub10@aol.com
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posted 05-24-2003 05:41 PM
I would like Victoria or Michael fom Aurora Galleries to explain the 20% premium charged to bid using the internet. Commonly, Ebay charges a 2 1/2% surcharge to use their live bid services. This surcharge is in most cases passed on to the live bidder by the auction house. Therefore the most Aurora Galleries should charge us to use the internet to bid is 17 1/2% or at the most 18 1/2%, not 20 % Please explain.
Dave |
Philip
Member Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 05-25-2003 05:00 AM
Well that 20% extra will keep me away ... |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2912
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 05-26-2003 06:44 PM
I certainly want to echo what veteran collector-specialist Bob McLeod pointed out concerning ANY Soyuz 11 crewmember autographs, especially (goes without saying) first-time flyers Dobrovolsky and Patsayev! But I would even go another step forward to also question and carefully examine, if you can to the best of your ability, anysort of provided "documentation, COAs," or whatever you want to call it before trying to purchase such a rarity (i.e. even more-so for a completed Soyuz 11 crew-signed item) that I believe to be one of the rarest of any manned spaceflight collection to date. While I'm certainly not an authority, in anyway, on Russian material -- I have collected and dealt with many Russian autographs since the 1970s, and I have certainly seen my share of FAKE signatures and even highly questionable, or bogus, paperwork certifying certain autographs. The same could also apply somewhat to other autographic material of deceased pioneer cosmonauts Gagarin and Komarov as well, but surely the Soyuz 11 crew remains in a category all by itself. Before buying such a piece ... always question the origin of where it came from, the seller and/or his track record, money-back guarantee provided if the buyer isn't happy with his purchase,
and so on. |
Rodina
Member Posts: 836
From: Lafayette, CA
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 05-26-2003 11:44 PM
I assume these guys are Aurora are smart cobbers and have decided that 20% is the optimal place on the price curve. Ebay may charge 2.5 or 3%, but they also provide no service, no background, no catalog, no way (by aggregating a pile of stuff into one auction) to judge how to allocate your collecting dollar among a variety of choices, nothing to let us compare notes -- ahead of time -- about what may or may not be a fake (God knows people here complain about Ebay as if it were one big fraud-factory rather than the benevolent efficency monster than it is -- here's your chance to know). Don't like the 20% buyer's premium? Account for that in your bidding price. Or better yet, don't bid, and make the marginal cost cheaper for those of us who might. It ain't rocket science. |
mensclub10@aol.com
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posted 05-27-2003 11:15 AM
Rodina, you did not understand what I said about Ebay. They charge companies like Aurora the 2 1/2% to use there live auction services. They have nothing to do with the actual auction. Companies then pass the 2 1/2% onto the people who want to use the live bid option instead of sending in their bids (bid sheet)directly. Therefore the most Aurora should charge us to bid live is 17 1/2% like almost every other auction house does when using the live bid option. Does that make sense to you? To me, that extra 2 1/2% could mean the difference in winning a lot or not. I would think that you would not needlessly want to spend more than you have to. ps, I still would like to get an answer from Aurora about the 20% charge. Dave |
VCampbell
Member Posts: 83
From: Bell Canyon CA USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 05-27-2003 06:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LT Scott Schneeweis:
I am appauled at the large commission being levyied by Aurora (up to 20% in the case of online bidders)....a rather huge disinsentive to give ones money to an Auction House....and in my opinion the valuations on many of the items are grossly inflated and impinge on the credibility of appraisers particurly given current market sentiment...
Scott and other customers:Thank you for your interest in our auction. Please know that Ebay/LiveAuctioneers charges us a 5% commission for access to their services PLUS a listing fee of $4500 to post our catalog to Ebay. We have set our internet buyer's premium to at least cover their added commission, if not the catalog costs. If you wish to pay the standard 15% buyer's premium, we invite you to bid via mail, fax or phone.
Best regards,
Victoria Campbell |
mensax
Member Posts: 861
From: Virginia
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 05-27-2003 06:44 PM
Ouch!!Ebay comes out ahead again! |
mensclub10@aol.com
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posted 05-28-2003 02:24 PM
Thank you Victoria for clarifying my question about the 20% additional charge to bid on Ebay.Dave |
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