posted 07-06-2001 04:15 PM               

While I realize space collectors and enthusiasts can sometimes be two entirely different groups, I do find it disappointing at best that reaction to my book at CollectSpace has been so tepid.

While the biographies written by astronauts and key personnel are interesting and insightful, I think that there is something very much lacking in their presentation of "first person" recollections of the space program as it happened.

Virtually all of these books were written with collaborators (read: ghostwriters) and "interpreted" by those writers in the first-person, as if the subject had written the words verbatim. I have spoken to SEVERAL astronauts and key NASA personnel who confirmed for that dialogue and so forth in their memoirs was frequently paraphrased for brevity or dramatic effect by their co-writers.

This is fine, and very much their prerogative. But I thought there would be a HUGE demand to read, virtually unedited, the recollections of these people IN THEIR OWN WORDS, not paraphrased by another writer. Apparently, at least as far as CollectSpace goes, this is not the case.

On a separate note, I'm also disappointed in the response to my requests for assistance on the project. I did receive a couple of very nice emails offering encouragement, but that’s about the size of it. For example, I wrote to one particular noted member of CollectSpace and never received any response. This particular member was a part of the Apollo program and apparently felt my credentials as a journalist, much less a project of relative historical importance, did not warrant even a courteous email response.

At risk of sounding bitter (and I'm not, really), it seems that grabbing up autographs and memorabilia are of far more important to CollectoSpace members than helping to advance the record of man's first steps into space.

I for one prefer not to look back at these critical final years for so many of our space pioneers and regret my actions. For me at least, it would be a tragedy to have spent those years just collecting autographs and memorabilia when I might have spent some time contributing to the historical record of manned spaceflight.

posted 07-06-2001 04:28 PM               

------------------
Happy trails,
Wayne Edelman
(you-are-go-for-tli)

posted 07-06-2001 05:52 PM               

It is my experience that some of the most passionate, well-read space historians are also space memorabilia collectors. The two go hand-in-hand.

As for collectSPACE readers specifically, one must only look to the tremendous response received when we interviewed Gordon Cooper -- the questions were all submitted by members here.

So, why the silence to your request?

I can offer a few personal ideas:

1. A question of specifics -
I think if you had limited your request to specific people you would have had a better response. For example, if you knew you were going to interview Gene Kranz, you could post here (and elsewhere first) soliciting questions for him. From what I have read of your previous posts (and if I missed something similar I apologize) your query has been too general, simply asking for submissions with no target.

2. A question of repetition -
Besides the astronaut autobiographies -- a good portion of which were written with editorial control by the astronaut -- NASA's History Office has also conducted oral and written histories with many of the crews, not to mention the administrators and directors. This, of course, does not mean that your project does not have merit. It simply means that you need to define what separates your proposal from those which have come prior.

3. A question of approach --
Why should collectSPACE readers or space memorabilia collectors in general do your work when you alone will reap the profits? To put it more kindly, what do you bring to the table besides the ability to collect questions from others? Perhaps if you were to suggest a specific individual, list the questions you were already planning to ask and then request submissions for queries you may have overlooked, you would find a better response.

These of course, are all suggestions. You are welcome to disregard them all. I do wish you success with your book and if I can be of any assistance, please feel free to ask.

posted 07-06-2001 10:58 PM               

Thank you very much for your reply and your suggestions, but I do feel I should respond.

First, in your opening statement you paraphrase me as saying "...space memorabilia collectors care more for the artifacts than the history behind them." That is not what I said.

What I said was, it SEEMS that they care more about grabbing up autographs and memorabilia than helping to advance the record (in this case, HOW THE FUTURE WAS) of man's first steps into space. They may care very much about the history behind memorabilia...but if that's the case, then the possible opportunity to be a small part of contributing to the written history of that time period should be irresistible. I know that it would be for me, if I felt I could be of any value whatsoever to a project of this kind. Because I, too, am a collector who is interested in history.

The fact is that a book like HOW THE FUTURE WAS can make first-person “conversations” with these unique individuals widely available. I am aware that many interviews are available from different sources, but they are not easily obtained. Also, it is a sad fact that a small percentage of younger people can tell you they’ve heard of Neil Armstrong…but very few can tell you what he did or what it means. Alan Bean? Mention his name to the average young person and they’re liable to ask you if he owns a coffee company.

I'd like to point out that your paraphrasing of my statement is, in itself, an illustration of the problem with paraphrasing of any kind: It's often inaccurate. In the case of the astronauts and other key personnel, failing to accurately capture their words AND the intended spirit behind them could be the literal difference between a historical record and the product of a publisher’s commercial aspirations.

Thank you for the apology about missing my previous posts. You did, in fact, miss my most recent post prior to the one that started this thread. In that post I mentioned I was conducting my first interview with Gene Kranz and that any questions members felt were not asked or addressed in FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION would be welcomed. No responses, not even a shred of interest from that post.

I’m quite sure that editorial control was exercised by the astronauts in their autobiographies. At least, I would hope so. But editorial control is not the same as comparing, line by line, what they said in a taped interview used as source material for a finished text. Accuracy is critical here. I’m sure the most popular and common stories they have to tell will be more or less the same. If I had to repeat the same story over and over again for various mediums over thirty-plus years, I’d have it down too.

But accuracy is just one issue. I want readers to feel as if they’ve sat down with the person and asked the questions THEY want answered—and not just the most popular ones. I want to ask the questions they forgot to ask, or didn’t know to ask. I want them to experience these unique individuals through "dialogue," as if they were speaking directly to them. This is an experience which can only be gained in person, through video interviews..or in first-person written interviews.

As for NASA’s historical documents and interviews, I’ve read a few. They were often stiff and geared largely toward getting the facts down. This has value, but again fails to capture the spirit of the experience rather than just the events. Someone without a pre-disposition toward space exploration history would find them largely boring. One of the reasons some NASA and contractor autobiographies are popular with the general public is because they ARE dramatic. In short, there’s a reason no compilation of NASA interviews has been issued by a large, commercial publisher.

What I bring to the table is years of experience and dozens of interviews with some of the most famous (and reclusive) writers in science fiction, a number of whom have appeared on the New York Time Bestseller List. Drawing out the drama and humor from those individuals was often daunting. But I was able to do so by developing a unique interview method which captures the linear style of real conversation. This is what differentiates my project from other interviews. People find a true “conversation” far more appealing and natural than a series of questions strung awkwardly together.

Your suggestion that CollectSpace readers or space enthusiasts would be doing the work for me by providing a few questions is uninformed. If you believe that 10 or 15 questions placed by others would make up the bulk of a COMPREHENSIVE interview then it is apparent to me that you haven’t conducted many extensive interviews. I was offering CollectSpace readers the opportunity to contribute to the record, if you will. As you said, many of them are well-read and may have issues which should be addressed that have not been dealt with in previous interviews. Or perhaps they would like to have prior statements or other facts clarified. But it’s hardly necessary. If space enthusiasts wish to stand on the sidelines when given the opportunity to participate in the game, that is fine. Again, it was offered as a courtesy.

As for your comment about profit; it’s true, I will be paid for the book eventually. But I’ll also be doing the work of assembling the bulk of the interviews. I’ll be traveling thousands of miles and spending thousands of dollars out of pocket before I’ve earned back the advance. Because someone provides a question it isn’t for my “profit.” The opportunity was put out there so that THEY could profit in the enjoyment and knowledge gained by having the subject answer their question and making that issue available to thousands of others.

posted 07-06-2001 11:54 PM               

Well, what can I say? If I need to point out the radical differences between a question or comment addressed in a letter and a book of this scope, then what I'm writing in these boards is clearly falling on deaf ears.

As a good friend of mine who happens to be a bestselling author says, "It's not science fiction fans who put science fiction books on the bestseller lists. It's the average Joe on the street who wants to be entertained riding the bus to work or for a half hour before he goes to bed at night."

In the case of HOW THE FUTURE WAS, it won't be space collectors who buy the majority of copies: it will be Joe Public, the guy (or gal) who is interested in the subject matter, but not so much that he collects it or even goes too far out of his way to find articles or books on the subject.

As for my request for "general" questions, I don't recall ever asking for that. In fact, I recall asking for specific questions relating to specific issues that have not been addressed before. I have more than enough "general" (whatever that means) questions already.

Perhaps I haven't been clear: I'm an experienced and published writer. I'm not a novice. I've held press accreditation, not because I creatively wrangled it or because I wrote for the Downhill University Press, but because I was a departmental editor for two Georgia newspapers and have written for several magazines.

I'm quite capable of carrying an interview and any of its parts to their conclusion. And I'm also experienced enough to know when to bring all or part of an interview to a conclusion before it becomes boring or repetitious.

Andrew Chaikin wrote a very fine book on man's journey to the moon. I'm not writing a history of the missions or the people involved. I'm assembling interviews WITH them, not ABOUT them. So what any article, or anyONE, knows about the astronaut or his mission(s) is secondary to the personal experiences. That is the focus of this book and I thought that would be apparent.

Getting the astronauts and others to cooperate has been difficult. And will probably continue to be. But having a reputable agent, the respect of subjects I will have already interviewed, plus the high likelihood of having a contract in hand will dramatically increase the odds of cooperation.

Finally, as to the questions being "unrelated" please refer to my previous post. These interviews will be compiled in a unique style and unrelated questions without smooth and seamless transitions will not work.

I’d like to say that I’ve seen perfectly nice members savaged on these boards for issues that I feel really didn’t warrant such commentary. I have no desire to be a part of that kind of confrontation. In the end I’m doing this book not for the money, but as a small contribution to the history of spaceflight. I’m writing the book I’d want to buy and read. And I’m sorry if readers on CollectSpace find the concept boring. I suppose we’ll see if a publisher and/or the general public feels the same way.

Thank you all for reading! Your time (what I was able to get of it, anyway), has been appreciated.

posted 07-07-2001 04:09 AM               

With the exception of TWILIGHT ZONE, both SFC and STARLOG are still in print and goings strong. I don't have any idea how you'd find the copies with my interviews now, and I know STARLOG doesn't have their issue content online as they make too much money selling back issues. You could probably find #164 on Ebay or at your local comic store, which had my first interview in it, but I don't think you or anyone else would want to go to the effort.

I'm going to be putting up all my interviews on my website, RichardStarr.com, when I have the chance. Right now the company I own is developing two full-featured e-commerce web sites and I simply haven't had the time to devote to work on the site.

Each interview for HOW THE FUTURE WAS is going to take me anywhere from one to two months to research and complete so I anticipate having even less time for the site. But I do recognize the marketing potential of the site and WILl be devoting some time to it.

If I can help you with any other questions, please feel free to write at your convenience.

posted 07-07-2001 04:17 AM               

(a) I've been up all night.

(b) I've been up all day

(c) Both of the above.

I tend to write things like email and so forth in first-draft with little or no editing other than a cursory once-over. When I'm tired that task is doubly difficult.

posted 07-07-2001 04:27 AM               

I did receive your query re:Buzz Aldrin and your book, but have been unable to reply as yet...please see my reply to Matt, just posted on the "Where's Doc?" string in this Free Space category for explaination. I, for one member of this group, am not willfully ignoring your request, just haven't had time to respond yet in the manner I would like. I suspect the same can be said for many other members; if you've been following thie message section of this site for a while, the one thing that can be said for this group, they're not apathetic! On the other hand, they don't appreciate being lectured. I can understand your disappointment, but I think you'd get more interest and involvement from the members with a less strident approach, and a clearer explaination of just what you're trying to achieve.

Frankly, I'd be very surprised if there is any question any of our members, or you, yourself, can up with that the astronauts haven't been asked repeatedly. They've been asked ad naseum how it felt to walk on the moon, if they had a religious epithany, what color was the soil, how do you go to the bathroom in space, how has going there affected your life, every detail about their marriage and family (except possibly are they now, or have they ever, used Viagra, about their business activities, golf scores, autograph policies, selling their mementoes, childhood experiences, what does it feel like to be a: test pilot, astronaut, Eagle Scout, the guy who didn't get to land, the guy who got bumped from his landing because of Deke and Alan's old boy networking, one of the group: "Neil and I forget how many other guys who walked on the moon...can't remember any of their names though", the second, third or fourth Gemini astronaut to walk in space (Who?), why did you want to become an astronaut, etc.

Not to take anything away from your effort, and yours may be a well written book (which would be a relief), but I doubt seriously the astronauts are going to give you much that is new:
1. like most prominent people they're going to try to keep the best stuff for their own book, and when scandals have occured, the press has been all over the story, usually to the point of overkill.
2. they've been in the public eye for 30-40 years, what they want to say has been pretty much said, what they don't want to say has been carefully avoided, why should they change their story just because you want to write a "different" book?
3. they and NASA have carefully cultivated an image, it made and keeps them famous, heroic figures with just a touch of human fraility..but not as much as the rest of us, why would/should they let a writer pierce that veil?

I'm sure from the quality of the writing in your posts that any book you author will be an excellent production, I just have misgivings about how much further "inside" you are going to be able to get.

posted 07-07-2001 05:20 AM               

I hope you don't mind me addressing you that way. If you prefer Dr. Hanson from those who don't know you, then please accept my apologies.

First, let me say that it wasn’t my intention to “call you to the carpet” specifically. I’m sorry if it came off that way. And it did occur to me that some individuals may have been busy or out of town, etc. That is why I didn’t blurt out your name or anyone else’s. I don’t think anyone who hasn’t responded to me is a “bad” person or anything as silly as that. I was just somewhat surprised that ONLY ONE person I contacted so far has even dropped me a brief note prior to your post this morning.

I found your post refreshing in its honesty and viewpoint. I have given the matter of "newness" in these interviews considerable thought. It has already occurred to me that these gentlemen have told their stories over and over...and over again. However, to me, trying to assemble a complete picture of these people through the medium of Q & A interviews conducted at various times over the last thirty years is akin to trying to rebuild a hurricane ravaged house by gluing the pieces together. The result would be awkward at best and downright ugly at worst. Not to mention impractical.

So perhaps my interviews won't be completely fresh. But I can guarantee that there will tidbits and angles not covered before, and all of them will be consistent. Why? Because that's why I DO. And without sounding overly proud of myself (and God only knows, that’s something I'm certainly not), I'm GOOD at it! I have a fiction writer's eye for dialogue and a journalist's eye for detail. And I respect ALL of my subjects. Many journalists don't, which accounts for the god-awful quality of so many interviews that I read--regardless of who's being interviewed.

Thank you for your kind comments on the quality of my posts. I certainly hope they're at least clear enough to get my message across. I use the word 'message' purposefully because I believe messages are to be shared and lectures are to be given. I suppose that’s why no one has ever been accused of passing a ‘lecture’ in class. It was not my intention to lecture anyone, only to share my viewpoint on essentially why I feel the participation of space enthusiasts could be of long-term value to this project. And I welcomed relevant responses, which I've more or less received.

All in all, if I can bring together a book of interviews that has the same easy reading style as a good historical book or even a novel (knock on wood), I'll be happy. My goal is to have someone start reading an interview and be so captivated that they'll silently groan when it's over because they've not only learned about this person and their experiences...they may even feel as if they know the person in a way, or best of all, have actually “met” and want to keep “talking” with them I have gotten this response from SF fans to my earlier interviews and it always made me happy because that’s what I was trying to achieve.

In the end if some of the material has already been covered, fine. But I'll do my best to put new angles on those subjects and come at them from interesting angles. Regarding scandals, I have very little, bordering on no interest at all, in "digging" into them with my subjects. Some of those issues are important to the space program, but most aren't, really. I'm not interested in digging up dirt, I'm interested in assembling the definitive Q & A interviews with these individuals, all in one volume.

On a separate note a couple of people outside of CollectSpace have written to me and asked how I plan to interview Alan Shepard or Gus Grissom or Pete Conrad. I'm already working on obtaining permissions to use sections of various interviews with deceased members of the space program. I will be assembling these pieces into complete interviews for the book (with full annotations, of course). I've studied this approach at length and think it will work out just fine. Fortunately, those interviews will be in the minority because a good number of prominent members of the space program are still with us.

posted 07-07-2001 05:34 AM               

That said, there are a few topics which do not yet have a "definitive history" as do the Mercury and Apollo programs. The most obvious of which is the Gemini program.

While many Apollo histories have included Gemini program information as the means to the end, I personally do not know of a mass-marketed book which has attempted to document the flights of Gemini 5 through 12 similar to the treatment given to Mercury and Apollo.

posted 07-07-2001 05:52 AM               

Thank you for that head’s up about Neil Armstrong. And I do tend to agree with you, I think that freshness must be achieved on some level for these interviews to be successful.

Certainly, I have no intention of wasting Mr. Armstrong’s time. I hope he will view my efforts favorably and be pleased with the final result. I've never gotten the impression that Neil Armstrong has anything against being interviewed per se. I simply think he doesn't suffer fools gladly, and who can blame him? I’ve also interviewed several well known actors, and without exception each one told me the most annoying thing in the world was being interviewed by someone who knew little or nothing about them or their work but who was assigned to write a “filler” piece.

I also agree that Gemini hasn't been documented in interviews in a way that treats it as more than a "stepping stone." It WAS a stepping stone, of course, but that does not diminish its importance as more than a means to the end, as you put it. And I am looking forward to exploring that subject in depth with the relevant parties.

Ultimately, in my opinion these men were the "best of the best." They simply don't want the time they have left to be wasted. I, for one, don't blame them. How many of them scarified precious family time to pursue their careers? How many thank God they set foot in space, but in the same breath thank God that their wives didn't leave them or their children stop talking to them because they weren't home enough?

posted 07-07-2001 06:01 AM               

Also, have you been in touch with Andy Chaikin? As you may know, to write his book he conducted six to fourteen hour interviews with each of the Apollo astronauts (less Jack Swigert, who unfortunately passed away prior to the start of the project). Andy is very busy these days as editor of SPACE Illustrated, but if there were specific questions (other than how to contact the astronauts), he might be open to share some of his advice.

posted 07-07-2001 06:16 AM               

I just looked at my second-to-last post and realized that instead of writing "sacrified" I wrote "scarified." Which has pretty much scarified me into going to bed.

posted 07-07-2001 09:40 AM               

This has been a most interesting exchange thus far and I've refrained from commenting until now as I was curious to see where it would go. I'd like to add the following for your consideration.

First, I can sympathize with your challenge. As a professionally trained and published historian I am always trying to glean fresh information out of sources and often realize that with certain well covered topics there is little room to maneuver. That being said, you cannot chastise the members of COLLECTSPACE for not rallying to your banner. Everyone has their own priorities and interests and as Robert and Doc have already mentioned there is no obligation or incentive to contribute what many feel is already a well covered topic.

I believe your interest in getting questions from the COLLECTSPACE population was with the motive of creating a product that would appeal to space enthousiasts such as those found here. This is a honest and intelligent appraoch, and shows that you want to create a book that will be read instead of used as a doorstop. But again, you've picked a topic that really has been already covered thoroughly, and although you have a good idea you've been beat to the market several times over.

Second, I don't think anyone is concerned about your qualifications, obviously you have the experience necessary to generate an excellent product. But your posts appear as if you're defending your ability to write this book which will instantly make people ask more critically what is this product, and what about it will make the average reader want to buy it?

Let's face it, the lives of the astronauts have been exceptionally well covered, and the Q&A style you've described for your projects reminds me of the interviews found in period LIFE magazines and such. Even the average enthousiast can feel saturated after awhile. I think the proposal of concentrating on the Gemini 5-12 missions is a good idea. This period certainly gets left in the dust too often and may provide an innovative avenue for you.

It may sound harsh, but people not responding may have been a good indicator in itself that perhaps this area has received enough attention. When one sticks a post here that grabs people they will respond (i.e. the simple yet exciting post - WHAT DO YOU DO WITH YOUR STUFF - that led to web pages being built).

Don't feel insulted that COLLECTSPACE didn't respond to your idea, simply take it as a challenge to create something that will capture this audience. Collectors tend to be well read, discerning, and knowledgeable historians as there's a true passion to know more about the objects in our collections. Please don't associate collectors with hoarders. Though the latter exist they don't comprise the majority of our hobby.

I wish you luck in your research and writing. Please surprise us with another addition to this fascinating field.

posted 07-07-2001 10:13 AM               

"I’ve also interviewed several well known actors, and without exception each one told me the most annoying thing in the world was being interviewed by someone who knew little or nothing about them or their work but who was assigned to write a “filler” piece."

Which makes me wonder why they continue to appear on Larry King. Sorry.

Well, this has been a most exciting thread and I'm pretty sure that I can come up with a few questions for Mr. Starr to ask.
I'll be in touch via e-mail.

Gene

posted 07-07-2001 11:22 AM               

quote:

---

I've never gotten the impression that Neil Armstrong has anything against being interviewed per se.

---

Quite to the contrary. Based on discussions I have had with fellow reporters and on my own experience, Mr. Armstrong's days of granting interviews may be over. That's why Apogee's success is so extraordinary. Though they were only able to get him to comment on X-15, not Gemini or Apollo.