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Author
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Topic: Apollo astronaut flight selection??
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Dan Lorraine
Member Posts: 373
From: Cranston, R.I.
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-09-2000 11:53 PM
   
For all of the years that I've followed the space program, I never knew why such first time flyers like Edgar Mitchell, Jim Irwin, Charlie Duke, and Harrison Schmitt (although I can understand Schmitt going ... being a geologist)were given the opportunity to walk on the moon! Why weren't all of those spots reserved for "seasoned veterans"??
Any insight would be greatly appreciated...
Thanks,
Dan[This message has been edited by Dan Lorraine (edited September 09, 2000).] |
collshubby
Member Posts: 591
From: Madisonville, Louisiana
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-10-2000 12:55 AM
Well, I don't know the answer, but I do have a theory. Maybe the astronauts, starting with group three, were chosen along the lines of those who would be best suited to go to the Moon. I don't even know if there is an answer to this question. The only people who could tell us for sure are Deke Slayton and Al Shepard, but both are gone now. |
Ben
Member Posts: 1896
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: May 2000
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posted 09-10-2000 01:24 AM
Well....you're right, in some ways! Jim Lovell, at the time of A-13, was the most "seasoned". while Shepherd only had 15 minutes to show!. It is a little known fact that if not for his death, Gus Grissom would have had, most likely, the first step. Imagine that!...at the time of his death, I believe he was either most "seasoned" thus far. ------------------
-Ben
Feel free to email me, with NO attachments, and subject line "Collect space message boards", as I will not recognize you otherwise! Thank you.
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mark plas
Member Posts: 385
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-10-2000 08:36 AM
Danastronauts like shirra, borman,Stafford and mcdivitt all had other Jobs during the lunar landings which made them not available for flight.Shirra and borman because they had left the program after apollo 7 and 8, McDivitt because he was apollo program manager and Stafford because he was chief astronaut helping out deke slayton because, shepard was training for apollo 14.
If these guys had stayed on flight status they would all have been commander on the lunar landing missions probably with the same team members they had on there previous mission.
so Lovell,scott and Young would have been CMP's and cernan would have been LMP.
so it would look like this:
Apollo 11:Armstrong collins aldrin
Apollo 12:Conrad gordon bean
Apollo 13:Borman lovell anders
Apollo 14:Shepard roosa mitchell,The orriginal commander of this mission would have been Cooper with eisle and mitchell but when Shepard was back on flight status his buddy slayton put him in favor of cooper the onley swich made was roosa for eisle who had made it on the backup crew for apollo 10 but it was clear after apollo 7 that he would never again be on a prime crew.
Apollo 15:McDivett scott and a new guy because schwieckart was stuffed away to the skylab program after he got sick on apollo9
Apollo 16:Stafford young cernan
Apollo 17:Commander would probebly have been an senior astronaut like gordon CMP would have come from the 1966 group and Schmitt was certain of an seat.
Guys like Haise mitchell Irwin duke and engle came in because they where trained as Lmp'S.
So being one of only 12 moonwakers was being inthe right place on the right time. Mark |
Ed Krutulis
Member Posts: 145
From: Plainfield, IL USA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 09-11-2000 12:05 AM
Mark,You are soo right about timing/right places. If Schirra hadn't annouced his retirement from the Space program before Apollo 7, he would have NOT gotten another mission after his headbutts with mission control. I've different stories about Cooper's chances during Apollo(starting to read his book tonight). Deke wanted a Mercury Astro to be first on the Moon, and it would have been Grissom. But the rotation rule that Deke set up for Gemini applied to Apollo. If Apollo 11 had to abort, it would have been Pete Conrad(keep in mind the lighting strike during lift off). Anyway, right time/right place or wrong time/wrong place(Apollo 1). Great Week, Ed |
mark plas
Member Posts: 385
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-11-2000 03:18 AM
EdIf Schirra was aiming for the moon I think that he would have act differently during apollo 7 knowing that otherwise he would ruin his change for a lunar landing.
mark |
astronut
Member Posts: 969
From: South Fork, CO
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 09-11-2000 03:39 AM
Wally had announced his retirement prior to A7, saying "this business has devoured me". He was refering to the endless training, visiting contractors, public relations tours, etc. This left him no time for a private life so he got out.When I was younger I could never understand why an astronaut would retire from space. I thought they were nuts. Now I understand. I honestly don't think I could have endured years of training, travel, etc. away from loved ones for just a chance, no guarantees, of a few hours or days in space. I just wish I had Bill Gates' type money, then I could buy a ride to MIR. In fact with the 100's of billions of his estimated worth, I could BUY my own shuttle & launch facilities! ------------------
q:-)
Wayne Edelman
(The Texican) |
mark plas
Member Posts: 385
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-11-2000 04:51 AM
wayne,
A lot of astronauts who retired from NASA during or after apollo went into business
spending almost as much time from home if not more than during there astronaut days.
mark |
WAWalsh
Member Posts: 809
From: Cortlandt Manor, NY
Registered: May 2000
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posted 09-11-2000 09:15 AM
Deke Slayton, I gather, always maintained that anything other than a rotation system would not be fair to the astronauts themselves. This dedication to the rotation, I believed, caused Stafford and McDivitt to move on other positions. The single ugly instance of rotation oversight was Shepard's command of Apollo 14. Gordo had commanded the back-up crew for Apollo 10 and, by standard rotation, should have commanded Apollo 13. Shepard suddenly became healthy, and Cooper was bounced out of the command slot in favour of Shepard (who, in turn, was later bounced back one mission to Apollo 14). As to why were rookies on the Moon, the LMP slot was viewed as the easiest position on the crew (if such a position exists). The issues of docking and potential need to rescue the LM called for an experienced pilot in the CM. That is why the veterans took the CMP slot on all of the early missions (Scott, Young, Collins, Gordon). As the missions moved on, however, most of the veterans had moved on (certainly, they did not wish to fly to the Moon without the opportunity to land) and so rookies took the CMP slot as well. |
OPOS
Member Posts: 200
From: Inverness, FL
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 09-11-2000 10:10 AM
along those same lines, I believe the only active (flying-status) Astronaut who turned down an almost guaranteed moon landing was Michael Collins. Deke wanted him to Command 17 (which did fly, course at this time there was a slight possibility it might not). I for one have always felt that that was a loss to the program. Not to diss Geno, he did a great job, and has become a wonderful spokesman for the space program. Collins (by many accounts) was among the brightest of all astronauts, has a wonderful sense of humor, and had the bonus of being on the 11 crew. Had he been CDR of 17, it is possible that interest by the media and public would have been greater for this last moon shot (similarly, so it would have been if Armstrong or Aldrin had Commanded it). I believe the grueling schedule caused Michael to turn down the mission (keep in mind he is but a handful of Astronauts STILL married to the same woman!). For him it appears as though he made the right decision. But I often wonder "what if...."
Tom Edmonds
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Ed Krutulis
Member Posts: 145
From: Plainfield, IL USA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 09-11-2000 10:24 PM
I guess by everyone's comments, "You have to Know when to Hold and When to Fold" in the Astro biz. Hey, look how long Story Musgrave waited just to get his 1st ride?Ed |
OPOS
Member Posts: 200
From: Inverness, FL
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 09-12-2000 08:26 AM
And just look how many rides he got! |
mark plas
Member Posts: 385
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-12-2000 03:15 PM
do you think musgrave would trade his six shuttle flights for one lunar mission,he ones said that when he became an astronaut he thought he would make it to mars remember this was 1967 |
Dan Lorraine
Member Posts: 373
From: Cranston, R.I.
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-12-2000 07:40 PM
Personally, I would trade 50 shuttle rides for one absolutely beautiful walk on the moon!!!
Best (just thinking of it),
Dan |
astronut
Member Posts: 969
From: South Fork, CO
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 09-12-2000 10:12 PM
Heck, I'd trade numerous shuttle flights just to turn 10 hot laps of the Moon like A8!!!------------------
q:-)
Wayne Edelman
(The Texican) |
collshubby
Member Posts: 591
From: Madisonville, Louisiana
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-13-2000 12:26 AM
I'd trade anything I have even for a 15 minute sub-orbital hop. |
astronut
Member Posts: 969
From: South Fork, CO
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 09-13-2000 01:45 AM
Old farts like me first!!------------------
q:-)
Wayne Edelman
(The Texican) |
OPOS
Member Posts: 200
From: Inverness, FL
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 09-13-2000 10:03 AM
All true! I just dream of having $20 Mill. so I can book a week on Mir. Hey NBC is going to have a "survivor" show where the winner goes to Mir. Where do I sign up? I would look like an @#! to spent a week in space.Tom ps Didn't I just read that scenario in Buzz Aldrin's book? |
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