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Author
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Topic: Apollo 11 launch recording in stereo sound
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Space Cadet Carl
Member Posts: 235
From: Lake Orion, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 07-12-2020 08:11 PM
   
On page 159 of J.L. Pickering and John Bisney's outstanding book "Picturing Apollo 11," there's a photo of two audio engineers at the LC-39 Press Site on launch morning. They're both taking a nap in front of what appears to be a pair of "top of the line" AKG studio microphones that are spaced about 15 feet apart, along with what appears to be a professional audio recording deck. The photo caption says that the audio engineers were trying to capture the sound of the Apollo 11 launch in full stereo. Does anyone know if this recording actually exists?  |
Grounded!
Member Posts: 400
From: Bennington, Vermont, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
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posted 07-13-2020 08:42 AM
Maybe, if they didn't sleep through the launch that is 
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Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 1017
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 07-13-2020 11:10 AM
They can't be serious about that having those two microphones there only 15 feet apart? They are fully 3 1/2 miles away from the sound source at liftoff. To get anything approaching stereo they would have had to have placed one microphone at least a mile away from there, maybe on the other side of the VAB. |
David Carey
Member Posts: 824
From:
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 07-13-2020 12:51 PM
It would be interesting to listen to with a good audio setup or headphones.Wouldn’t there be potential for a stereo effect due to directionality from/of reflected rocket sound waves? At a minimum, I’d think closer things like viewing stand and crowd chatter, PA system, surrounding birds chirping, etc. would all make for a more immersive recording even if the Saturn V was equally balanced with no audio multipathing. |
Space Cadet Carl
Member Posts: 235
From: Lake Orion, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 07-13-2020 03:54 PM
A lot of ambient "you are there" recordings use two shotgun microphones on a T-shaped bar spaced only a foot or two apart. It's meant to duplicate what your two ears would be hearing. I really hope an Apollo expert can provide more info on those two recording guys in the photo. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3202
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-13-2020 04:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Cozmosis22:
To get anything approaching stereo they would have had to have placed one microphone at least a mile away from there...
Do human beings not enjoy stereo sound with our ears a mere 6 or 7 inches apart? Is our aural experience of a rocket launch not the way nature intended, in spite of being "hindered" by having our built-in "microphones" so unreasonably close together? |
Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 1017
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 07-13-2020 05:05 PM
With the audio subject being located several miles away, those two microphones, which appear to be identical, would both be acquiring and recording essentially the exact same thing. Using five mikes would still end up with monaural sound. Now if they had adjusted the pickup settings; like one side aimed at treble pitches and the other side focused on bass tones there would be differences. Otherwise there would really be no stereo effect whatsoever. Perhaps they were going to each stand at a microphone and give their own personal narrations during countdown and liftoff. That would have been a strange form of stereo recording of the launch. They may have planned to turn one microphone back toward the viewing stand at launch to record the crowd reaction as the mighty Saturn V began to roar off the pad and that would have made for a very interesting stereo recording. |
Go4Launch
Member Posts: 557
From: Seminole, Fla.
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 07-13-2020 08:47 PM
Thanks for the questions on the caption, which should have been more specific.While it’s correct that the launch noise would have sounded mono and not stereo, the other sounds that were closer to one mic or the other would have given a definite sense of space. Any pre-launch sounds, for example, and anyone whooping or hollering during the launch (if audible above the rocket noise) would have given a feeling of stereo. The launch would have at minimum sounded hi-fi with lots of low end using these large diaphragm mics. The quality of the recording alone would have been a compelling reason to try it (I remember seeing similar set-ups at some early shuttle launches). The mics are Telefunken (Neumann) U47 tube condenser mics. The dual high-voltage power supply is visible sitting on top of what is likely the mixer rack. The spacing was limited by the maximum cable length between the power supply (requiring AC power) and the mics. They also would have wanted to keep an eye on the mics, at least when awake, since they were (and still are) very expensive!
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oly
Member Posts: 1075
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 07-13-2020 09:03 PM
Perhaps the microphone positions are not finalized. Judging by the way the wires laid on the ground have been run it appears that the plan was to position each microphone further away, but may have moved them closer to where they are resting to protect their equipment while they wait. |
Colin Anderton
Member Posts: 186
From: Great Britain
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 07-14-2020 03:55 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
Do human beings not enjoy stereo sound with our ears a mere 6 or 7 inches apart?
I have to say I agree with Blackarrow's comment. |
David Carey
Member Posts: 824
From:
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 07-14-2020 02:55 PM
A really interesting topic. I understand the seemingly monophonic nature of sound from a rocket (point source) far away but I think this assumes a unified sound wavefront impinging, along with matched microphones.I’m guessing sound from the rocket reflected, diffracted, and refracted in ways that made for a non-uniform front by the time it reached the viewing area and the microphone pair. Either way, perhaps the setup is best described as trying to capture the binaural aspects of hearing that lets us localize sound(s) and achieve an immersive experience vs monaural audio. This paper describes it pretty well. Also, the U47 microphones (man, those are pricey!) had omnidirectional and cardioid sound sensitivity patterns that could perhaps be chosen to enhance binaural effects when used in pairs. There’s a whole science/art there it seems. Trying to learn here - comments/corrections from an audio expert welcomed! |
Space Cadet Carl
Member Posts: 235
From: Lake Orion, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 07-14-2020 04:48 PM
I stand corrected. Those mikes are actually Neumann's? Wow, that's what The Beatles used. |
Space Cadet Carl
Member Posts: 235
From: Lake Orion, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 07-22-2020 07:29 AM
Seems like this launch recording might forever remain a mystery to us. But, it was interesting to learn that those guys were using $4,000 Neumann microphones at the LC-39 Press Site. |
oly
Member Posts: 1075
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 07-22-2020 08:13 AM
Maybe nobody woke them in time for the launch? |
Colin Anderton
Member Posts: 186
From: Great Britain
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 07-22-2020 08:23 AM
The best recording of a Saturn V rocket launch "in the clear" that I know of is the one on the NASA highlights tape, I think it's called "Space Sounds." It was recorded seven miles from the pad, and is the Apollo 11 launch (the public release line is very softly audible).I have used this in the past to dub onto a video of the launch, and it does have a stunning effect when heard through good speakers. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3202
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-22-2020 08:47 AM
In July 1975, at KSC, I recorded crowd noise, countdown (from a nearby NASA tannoy) and launch of ASTP via a mono microphone on a C-90 audio cassette in a cheap cassette tape recorder. Played back through the recorder's own loudspeaker, the recording was functional and preserved crowd noise, countdown and "boom" of the arriving sound of engine ignition, followed by the deep crackling roar of the rocket lifting off.When I bought a stereo music centre in the 1980s, I discovered that, with bass turned well up, the recording — in spite of the limitations of the system — provided a glorious listening experience. The wooden floor of my living room vibrated, even the walls seemed to vibrate, and there were even hints of those internal organ vibrations which witnesses to Saturn V launches always talk about. With the right settings on my sound system, the playback actually sounded more lifelike than real life, compensating to some extent for the fact that I wasn't actually back at KSC experiencing both sound and vision. I'm not by any means an audio expert, but I suppose even an indifferent recording can be turned into something special with the right playback gear. |
Colin Anderton
Member Posts: 186
From: Great Britain
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 07-23-2020 06:21 AM
Yikes! And I thought I liked my hi-fi loud! My floor vibrates a bit when playing that launch I mentioned, but my internal organs?Sure you're not half-deaf? lol |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3202
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-23-2020 06:38 AM
Pardon? |
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