Author
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Topic: Closest persons to a Saturn V launch
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Space Cadet Carl Member Posts: 225 From: Lake Orion, Michigan Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 02-19-2019 08:00 AM
Here's a security pass for inside the Fallback Area at the launch of Apollo 11. It has "mobile" written on it so it might involve those armored vehicles. |
oly Member Posts: 971 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 02-19-2019 08:06 AM
Referring to Google Earth imagery, there is almost nothing left of the Apollo era slide wire area today, the area was reclaimed by regrowth on the 1994 aerial shot.I have tried to mark the locations of each viewer of an Apollo launch to determine who was the closest, hopefully a definitive answer can be established. |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2983 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-19-2019 08:18 AM
quote: Originally posted by LM-12: The landing area and nearby bunker sure looks like it is located outside the pad perimeter road and fence to me.
The pad perimeter "fence" is still many yards away from the Pad Perimeter Road of Launch Complex 39, even as seen from the aerial view provided. You can see the old Apollo slide wire area very close to the fence, but not outside of it, near the LOX tank facility northwest of the pad. |
Ben Member Posts: 1896 From: Cape Canaveral, FL Registered: May 2000
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posted 02-19-2019 09:28 AM
quote: Originally posted by LM-12: This 1976 aerial photo of Pad 39A...
Thanks, that shows it clearly. In terms of today, that is definitely outside the fence. It appears in this photo to be outside as well, so either the fence is too hard to see in the launch photos from there, or they previously had it extended around that area perhaps. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3324 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-19-2019 10:00 AM
The slide wire landing area can also be seen behind Apollo 13 on the pad in photo KSC-70PC-104. |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2983 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-19-2019 05:04 PM
If 2,400 feet near the center of an Apollo-era Pad 39 (either A/B) puts the end of the escape cab slide wire just outside of the pad perimeter fence, than I stand corrected. My memory from those old Apollo days is indeed fading as the years go by.Of course, though, for the shuttle program the slide wire landing area had been moved inland inside the perimeter fence to the east (right) of the perimeter road, known as the Slide Wire Termination Facility. But during the Apollo program, there had been 14 specially trained men stationed at the old slide wire bunker site. It was a volunteer team that consisted of 11 KSC firemen and 3 military medical technicians as the pad rescue team. In addition, there were 3 armored M-113 personnel tank-like carriers position there as well. The pad rescue team, if called on, could get to the Apollo spacecraft, located at the 320-foot level of the Saturn V vehicle, within less than 4 minutes. The carriers provided blast and noise level protection to the rescue team, in addition to special heat reflective clothing and ear plugs, including emergency equipment such as individual air packs. Since the early manned Apollos, the special team, employed by Wackenhut Corp., would spend 40 hours a week in rigorous training preparing for a Saturn V launch. About 2 months before launch, the team would exercise from 1-2 hours each morning, building up their physical condition. The balance of the days were spent learning and practicing specialized rescue techniques. On liftoff day, the team would arrive 1 hour before the flight crew would enter their Command Module. Thirty minutes before launch, they would enter the carriers and prepare to ride out the launch or go into emergency action. By launch time, rescue members would be using regulated air supplies and have checked their ear plugs and communication earphones in order to protect their hearing from noise levels of 142 decibels as the F-1 rocket engines came to life. Other than the flight crewmen themselves atop a moon rocket, only these 14 men are closer to the actual Saturn V as it leaves the launch pad. |
Space Cadet Carl Member Posts: 225 From: Lake Orion, Michigan Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 02-19-2019 05:52 PM
Ken, thank you so much for providing that wealth of information. This was exactly what I was looking for. It sounds like the guys surrounding the pad had the stamina and physical training of Seal Team Six! I'm in awe just reading about them and their level of readiness. Thanks again. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3324 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-19-2019 11:02 PM
From this NTRS document found on another thread, regarding the Apollo EES: This second system was a single cab on a slidewire that egressed the Astronauts from the capsule level of the launch tower to the ground outside the pad's perimeter fence. Up to nine personnel could load into this cab and ride down a steel cable to a landing site 2400 feet away. |
capcomespace Member Posts: 27 From: france Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 02-20-2019 01:11 AM
Thnak for this.How the slidewire was pulled at the tower? Start to the ground or a top the tower? |
oly Member Posts: 971 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 02-20-2019 08:25 PM
2400 feet is what I consider close. It would be quite an experience. |
Space Cadet Carl Member Posts: 225 From: Lake Orion, Michigan Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 02-21-2019 03:53 AM
Exactly. The vibration from that close must have been incredible. Over 145db? Holy smoke. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3324 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-21-2019 09:40 AM
The bunker and M-113 vehicles at Pad 39B can be seen in this photo S69-34328 of Apollo 10 on the pad. Great shot. Photo is dated the day before launch. |
oly Member Posts: 971 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 02-22-2019 10:15 PM
I had always believed that the acoustic energy emitted from the 5 F1 engines of a Saturn V was powerful enough to be dangerous to human life, or could do some serious damage.If this is the case, What was the minimum safe distance for acoustic protection (disregarding the minimum safe distance for a vehicle failure/explosion on the pad)? The STS water suppression system, designed to reduce the acoustic energy damage to the vehicle and launch facility, is an example of the power that high energy rockets can have. |
oly Member Posts: 971 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 02-22-2019 10:20 PM
quote: Originally posted by LM-12: LIFE magazine has this impressive photo
This image looks to have been taken through a window or via some equipment designed to protect the camera. Perhaps through a window of an APC or similar. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3324 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-23-2019 09:18 AM
Maybe the Apollo 11 launch photo was taken from M-113 number 2 positioned there for the launch. There is a similar LIFE photo of the Apollo 10 launch at Pad 39B, but the image is darker. |
oly Member Posts: 971 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 02-23-2019 09:02 PM
The image of the 113 APC located near a bunker during an Apollo launch, near the base of the slide wire system, provides some details to work with.The slide wire has been identified to 2400 feet in length, placing the slide wire tension winch outside the perimeter fence that can be identified within Google Earth images (dating back to 1994) the position of the perimeter fence in the Apollo ere aerial photo seems to show the perimeter fence in the same location. The slide wire arresting area for the Apollo era, was above the bunker revetment, with the ride terminating between the bunker and the tension winch tower mound, the area where the 113 APC vehicles were parked. These images show a single dome bunker. There is also two bunker entrance doors seen in Apollo era images, that appear to be the same ones that are located at the Shuttle Slide wire landing area, and are visible on Google Earth/Maps. These are inside the perimeter fence. For Pad A, the location of the Apollo slide wire tension winch is located on a small spit of land, protruding into the water. This area is overgrown and reclaimed on the Google Earth images. The 1976 aerial photo of the pad shows both these mounds of earth outside the perimeter fence. If astronauts were to use the two bunker doors visible on Google Earth as sanctuary from a potential Saturn V rocket explosion, it would necessitate them to run towards danger, quite some distance, to reach the two bunker doors. Are any details of the single dome bunker known, what became of it, where it led to, what was inside? |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3324 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-23-2019 11:19 PM
The pad perimeter fence can be seen in the background, east of the Apollo slide wire landing and bunker area, in the S69-34328 photo I mentioned earlier. quote: Originally posted by oly: There is also two bunker entrance doors... inside the perimeter fence
Were those two bunker doors shuttle-era only (being so close to the shuttle slide wire landing area), or were they part of the Apollo-era initial rubber room emergency escape system built under the pad? Were they exit doors, perhaps? From the NASA website:At Pad 39B some of the rooms no longer are used, including the famous "rubber room," abandoned in place after the Apollo Program ended. At one end of the entryway to the room is a long, narrow tunnel leading west to the perimeter of the pad - an escape route for Apollo astronauts. The long, narrow tunnel is oval-shaped, like the concrete seen around the two bunker doors. |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2983 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 02-25-2019 07:12 PM
If I am not mistaken from a prior posting here, did someone ask for information about the slide wire itself that had been used during the Apollo program?The cable was 1-1/8" in diameter and made of Type 304 stainless steel. Its minimum breaking strength of 56.5 tons is more than adequate for safe operations. If anyone would like more information about the LC-39 Apollo-era escape system primary components, which in addition to the slide wire, included a cab, arrester system, and a protective bunker, let me know. There had been a variety of rapid egress/escape situations planned for, but also, in the event of other potentially dangerous situations that did not require extreme actions, such as a minor propellant leak, small fires outside the space vehicle, and overpressures, to name a few. |
oly Member Posts: 971 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 02-26-2019 04:59 AM
Ken, always interested in whatever details can be provided for any of the early space programs.If you have information that you are prepared to share, I am prepared to learn. Thank you. |
LM-12 Member Posts: 3324 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-08-2019 12:58 PM
Retro Space Images has this interesting Apollo 10 photo taken at the Pad 39B bunker. Who is the astronaut? |
star61 Member Posts: 294 From: Bristol UK Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 03-08-2019 03:53 PM
I haven't watched it for quite a while but i'm sure Gary Sinise was closer than anyone ever!! |
ozspace Member Posts: 234 From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Registered: May 2009
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posted 03-11-2019 05:34 AM
As an accredited reporter, I was incredibly privileged to witness the launch of Atlantis, on STS-132 in May 2010, from the roof of the VAB.Was this vantage point ever made available to media or any other people during Apollo? I have seen pictures and TV taken from up there but not with any evidence of humans during Apollo launches. |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2983 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-27-2019 06:54 AM
Throughout the Apollo program, there was a pool of photographers permitted access to the VAB rooftop for most launches. A few NASA photographers were also on coverage assignment from there as well. I can recall some great NASA shots from the rooftop of Apollos 15, 16, and 17 offhand.The same also applied for shuttle missions, however, not all reporters allowed atop the VAB had pool-assigned coverage. Reporters, though, did not have access on top the LCC since astronauts and their families on many occasions would view a liftoff from there in their own privacy and security . |
Tom Member Posts: 1610 From: New York Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-27-2019 12:12 PM
Ken, do you have any links to the launch photos of Apollo 15, 16 an 17 taken from the VAB roof? Thank you! |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2983 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-27-2019 01:21 PM
The 15 and 17 were mainly produced on official NASA lithos during that time period, but I only know of 16 from a color glossy print that wasn't made into a litho. I am sure that J.L. and Ed would have access to those photo links, which I do not, unfortunately. But I am pretty sure they were shot from the top of the VAB. |
oly Member Posts: 971 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 06-10-2019 10:54 AM
Here is a photo detailing the pad 39 emergency egress layout, including the slide wire and bunker tunnel http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/apollo/ksc/LC39/apollo_emergency_egress_system/LC39%20egress%20system%201976%20view.JPG |