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  Apollo 11 lunar module 16mm camera

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Author Topic:   Apollo 11 lunar module 16mm camera
LM-12
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From: Ontario, Canada
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posted 12-21-2018 10:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A 16mm camera mounted in the lunar module pilot's window filmed Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin on the lunar surface.

Why isn't that camera seen in photo AS11-40-5872?

oly
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posted 12-22-2018 01:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A combination of the laws of light with regards to reflection and refraction. The lighting conditions whereby the inside of the LM is darker that the outside environment, the LM window coating material, and the dynamic range available from a scanned JPG file, prevent such details being visible, with the LM window acting as a mirror.

This photo details how the lunar surface is being reflected by the LM windows, while this photo taken from a slightly different angle shows limited detail through the window, of objects close to the window, being illuminated by light reflected from the lunar surface.

While it is sometimes possible to recover some detail within images using modern photo processing software, JPG files do not record enough dynamic range.

There are some Apollo images that were slightly over exposed, that do allow details to be recovered. For anyone interested and wanting to try, this image, works well.

LM-12
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From: Ontario, Canada
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posted 12-22-2018 09:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The same effect can also be seen in the LM windows on later lunar landings. The blue windows always looked somewhat unusual to me.

Or, maybe the "blue" windows are just reflecting the "Sea" of Tranquility.

Photo AS11-36-5389 taken during the translunar coast is a good view of the 16mm camera mounted in the LM window.

oly
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posted 12-23-2018 05:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Details of the Lunar Module windows, including specifics of the coatings, reflectivity, and light transition can be found within this document.

oly
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posted 12-28-2018 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are there any mission photos or film footage of the 16mm camera installed, viewed through the LM windows?

One Big Monkey
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posted 01-01-2019 12:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It looks to be visible in the Apollo 17 photographs of the returning LM, for example.

It could also be the round lens sized object visible in this Apollo 11 image shortly after it had undocked from the CSM.

oly
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posted 01-01-2019 08:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by One Big Monkey:
It looks to be visible in the Apollo 17 photographs of the returning LM
While I can see an object in the window that looks to be a camera, the caption associated with the AS17-149-22852 photo identifies "inspection view of LM during rendezvous (Jack Schmitt visible in left window)."

The positioning of the subject is in about the same location vertically as in this image that shows Gene Cernan visible in right window.

There were different methods of attaching the DAC camera in position in the LM window, this image shows the camera clamped to a cross brace. The DAC could also be mounted on the COAS mount above the window.

One Big Monkey
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posted 01-02-2019 01:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Apollo image descriptions aren't always reliable.

In this detail (which I have brightness adjusted) you can clearly make out the camera and also the round shape of Schmitt's helmet.

oly
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posted 01-02-2019 08:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great work. While I don't see Schmitt's helmet detail, I don't doubt he is somewhere behind the camera.

Interesting details, When you experiment with some of these Apollo images, you sometimes discover some strange details. For example, this Apollo 17 image shows some strange image noise just above the cabin that appears to have been "painted out" in the majority of the black background.

I suspect this is a property of the original digitised scan and conversion to an internet useable JPEG image format. It would be great to have new scans of the original images done with up to date technology that we could examine for fine details.

Skytrotter
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posted 01-03-2019 04:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Skytrotter   Click Here to Email Skytrotter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought that the blue in the window was the window shade being closed for thermal control reasons. The same reason the hatch was closed during EVA when both astronauts were on the surface.

oly
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posted 01-03-2019 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the case of the above Apollo 11 image, the LM Pilot window shade was not installed. The 16mm camera recorded Armstrong's climb down the ladder, the flag planting, and Aldrin trying different mobility methods along with other activities through this window.

One Big Monkey
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posted 01-04-2019 03:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by oly:
While I don't see Schmitt's helmet detail, I don't doubt he is somewhere behind the camera.
I think the stripe you see there is his Snoopy cap.

Space Cadet Carl
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posted 01-06-2019 01:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Cadet Carl   Click Here to Email Space Cadet Carl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wouldn't Schmitt still be wearing his LEVA over the top of his bubble helmet at that point, completely obscuring the snoopy cap?

One Big Monkey
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posted 01-06-2019 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Depends whether they bothered with all of it.

LM-12
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posted 01-06-2019 05:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Space Cadet Carl:
Wouldn't Schmitt still be wearing his LEVA over the top of his bubble helmet at that point
I doubt that. On Apollo 17, there was a sleep period between the end of EVA-3 and LM ascent stage liftoff.

Space Cadet Carl
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posted 01-06-2019 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Cadet Carl   Click Here to Email Space Cadet Carl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm talking about the photo Cernan took on the surface, looking up through the window. I'm guessing Schmitt would still have the LEVA on then.

LM-12
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posted 01-06-2019 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you are referring to photo AS17-149-22855, that image was taken in lunar orbit.

One Big Monkey
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posted 01-07-2019 01:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There's also this from the mission transcript immediately before lift off from the surface:
186:09:28 Cernan: There's an experiment. (Pause) Not really, since we do that with our PLSS and everything else. (Pause) Okay. Take your helmet off. (Pause) Boy, that was painless enough. (Pause) Jack, I'd wrap that thing around it like (garbled).

186:09:58 Schmitt: Wait a minute. (Garbled) take our helmets (garbled).

186:10:02 Cernan: Not yet. We (garbled) obviously. Stow them on the engine cover. Okay.

[Comm Break. After doffing the helmets and gloves, they will stow the LEVAs and EVA gloves and, in general, get things out of the way in preparation for launch.]

LM-12
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posted 01-07-2019 02:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That was just after the second equipment jettison. They donned their helmets and gloves again at around 187:40:05 GET, about 20 minutes before LM liftoff.

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