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  Apollo 8, Apollo 10: Sea of Tranquility fly-over

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Author Topic:   Apollo 8, Apollo 10: Sea of Tranquility fly-over
Jim_Voce
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posted 03-29-2018 02:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim_Voce   Click Here to Email Jim_Voce     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know the details behind choosing the Sea of Tranquility landing site for Apollo 11 and how that related to the Apollo 8 and Apollo 10 missions' flight plans?

For example, before Apollo 8's launch, Jim Lovell very deliberately selected an unnamed lunar region on a lunar map which of course he named "Mount Marilyn" for the purpose of visually spotting this region during the Apollo 8 mission. But why was this?

So at the time of the Apollo 8 mission, had the Sea of Tranquility already been chosen as the landing spot for Apollo 11? If so, was it Lovell's job was to try to find a landmark to aide the landing?

Secondly, as I understand it, Apollo 10's primary mission was to evaluate gravitational fluctuations that might affect the descent of Apollo 11 lunar lander. Apollo 10 also sighted "Mount Marilyn" as a geographical feature that the Apollo 11 astronauts would use.

So, once Apollo 10 had the chance to experience the gravitational fluctuations that Apollo 11 would experience, how did Mission Control and flight planners compensate for these fluctuations? Was it something corrective written into the LM software? Or something added to the simulated landing procedures for Armstrong?

And also, did Apollo 10's flight path actually concentrate on the Sea of Tranquility region? Or was the Sea of Tranquility only one of the areas that Apollo 10 flew over?

Mike Dixon
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posted 03-29-2018 02:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lunar Orbiters WAY before in 1966.

Headshot
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posted 03-29-2018 07:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Apollo 11 had three potential landing targets, not just Mare Tranquillitatis.

The site for the first launch opportunity on 16 July, would have targeted ALS2-Mare Tranquillitatis. A delay of two days for weather or equipment reasons would have sent them to ALS3-Sinus Medii; another two-day delay (20 July launch) would have resulted in ALS5, a site in Oceanus Procellarum, being targeted.

Flight operations were very concerned about having the optimum lighting conditions at the landing site, hence the target sites moving westward, following the terminator.

Apollo 12 had two landing site targets, ALS7 and ALS5, although ALS7 with Surveyor 3 was the far more desirable one. After that, Apollo missions were targeted for specific sites.

Delta7
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posted 03-29-2018 08:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Somehow Armstrong saying "Sinus Base here, The Eagle has landed." doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

Headshot
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posted 03-29-2018 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How about "Procellarum Base?" Wonder how badly CapCom Charlie Duke might have mangled that one.

This leads to an interesting aside. I recall reading that Armstrong had confided, before launch, to CapCom Charlie Duke that he was going to refer to the ALS2 landing site as Tranquility Base. I wonder if he told Duke the names he would use had Eagle landed at ALS3 or ALS5?

Jim_Voce
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posted 03-30-2018 03:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim_Voce   Click Here to Email Jim_Voce     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Headshot. Great insight.

Okay so this still goes back to the flight plans for Apollo 8. I have read that Jim Lovell chose the "Mount Marilyn" landmark because it was close to the Sea of Tranquility. Is this correct? And given that there were back-up sites for Apollo 11, did Apollo 8 look at those site as well?

And the same question applies for Apollo 10 — did they fly over the Sea of Tranquility region only?

Mike Dixon
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posted 03-30-2018 04:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You do realize that Apollo 10 was less than two months prior to Apollo 11, don't you?

Marc05A
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posted 03-30-2018 06:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marc05A   Click Here to Email Marc05A     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was unaware that multiple sites were selected for a specific mission. Of course it makes sense.

But since specific landing sites models were produced for the LM Simulator at KSC, did the training personnel swap those models between simulations, in order to make the CDR and LMP more familiar with the landmarks of the different locations?

Headshot
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posted 03-30-2018 07:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The landing ellipses were roughly 9 miles by 2.5 miles for each of the three sites. Since these sites were chosen for their blandness and lack of features, I suspect that specific terrain models were not constructed for Apollo 11 landing simulations, although I could be wrong about this.

I also seem to recall that there was some issue about how far eastward ALS2 was located. Flight operations was concerned that it was too far east and would not allow adequate tracking and computing of Eagle's trajectory in the interval between appearing over the lunar limb and PDI. ALS1 had been eliminated for this reason.

I believe it was Tom Stafford who suggested Apollo 10 be a test run for landing at ALS2. That way operations could determine if there was a problem or not, and still test the LM under lunar flight conditions.

Additional info. Apollo 8 photographed ALS1 and ALS2, any remaining sites were not illuminated during 8's stay in lunar orbit.

One Big Monkey
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posted 03-30-2018 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They did actually recreate the some of the terrain in one of the proposed Apollo 11 landing ellipses at Cinder Lakes in Arizona using lunar orbiter photographs. This image shows where those areas were in relation to Tranquility Base:

The two zones recreated are centre right, and are about 7 km from the actual landing site. However as far as I know the Apollo 11 crew never actually went there. More info here.

Headshot
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posted 03-30-2018 11:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is a pretty nice little book in the Images of America series titled Northern Arizona Space Training by Schindler and Sheehan. This simulated lunar terrain was used to test and develop lunar exploration procedures and techniques.

Some Apollo astronauts assigned to later flights did train at the Cinder Lake Crater Field Complex.

Follow up 4/1/2018-D. Wilhelms in his indispensable, To A Rocky Moon, states that Apollo 12 astronauts Peter Conrad and Alan Bean trained at Cinder Lake at least once.

Jim_Voce
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posted 04-02-2018 03:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim_Voce   Click Here to Email Jim_Voce     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay so please allow me to be more specific regarding my question about Apollo 10's flight path -

As Headshot noted, there were three lunar landing sites chosen for Apollo 11 all based on when Apollo 11 actually launched.

There was also a lunar landing site committee that was formed in 1968 and as I understand, they were still deciding in June 1969 on where Apollo 11 should land.

Mike Dixon noted that the lunar landing site choices were determined from pictures coming back from the Lunar Orbiter probes.

This brings us to the Apollo 10 mission and specifically, what was the flight path destination for Apollo 10 Lunar Module?

As I understand it, the Apollo 10 lunar module's primary mission was to evaluate the Moon's gravitational fluctuations such that they might affect Apollo 11's landing. But also the Apollo 10 lunar module had a flight path trajectory and wanted to know if the Apollo 10 lunar module's flight path concentrated on the preferred candidate landing zones for Apollo 11 — or was the flight path for Apollo 10 much broader and it did not concentrate on landing zones for Apollo 11?

One Big Monkey
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posted 04-02-2018 04:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for One Big Monkey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This shows the path of the Apollo 10 images that looked straight down:

I've plotted all the lunar orbit images in Google Earth, and you can get the kmz files for that here.

Mike Dixon
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posted 04-02-2018 04:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I did not say that Jim. Lunar Orbiters simply laid the groundwork for what was to follow.

Headshot
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posted 04-02-2018 07:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On 10 July 1969 NASA made a tentative plan for the first three Apollo missions. Apollo 11 would on either a "blue" eastern mare or a "red" western mare, since this was the first landing, it did not matter which. The next mission would land on the other type of mare. The goal was to get samples from both types of mare. We desperately wanted to know what were the chemical composition differences of these mare. The third mission would land on a Mare Imbrium debris field, which turned out to be Fra Mauro. This is the simplified version.

Apollo 8's flight path intentionally took it over ALS1 in Mare Tranquillitus. Images from that mission indicated this site might be "contaminated" with other debris and that it was not a pure "blue" mare. Add that fact to its extreme eastern location and ALS1 was soon out of the running. Apollo 10 flew over ALS2, which turned out to be much more suitable as a "blue" mare representative.

These are Cliff's Notes type answers. What any legitimately interested cSer needs to do is to read Where No Man Has Gone Before and To A Rocky Moon by Don Wilhelms. The later gives a brilliant account of the scientific and operational pitfalls of attempting to define a celestial body from 10, then only six, sampling areas.

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