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  Greatest concerns for an Apollo disaster

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Author Topic:   Greatest concerns for an Apollo disaster
Delta7
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Posts: 1527
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007

posted 02-03-2016 08:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know that when Apollo 17 splashed down, flight controllers "were elated" that the program was over and no crew was lost. The implication was that they had been holding their breaths hoping nothing would go wrong.

Has there ever been a discussion of which potential disaster scenario worried them the most? Was it a landing resulting in the lunar module tipping over, the LM failing to lift off from the lunar surface, another Apollo 13 type scenario, or something else?

moorouge
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From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009

posted 02-03-2016 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for moorouge   Click Here to Email moorouge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the shuttle era, there were 'Critical One' failures that would result in the loss of a crew. I assume that another way of putting the question posed is what were the 'Critical One' failures for Apollo?

Sy Liebergot
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Posts: 501
From: Pearland, Texas USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 02-03-2016 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sy Liebergot   Click Here to Email Sy Liebergot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delta7:
...flight controllers "were elated" that the program was over and no crew was lost
Which fight controllers? Where is this documented?

NukeGuy
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Posts: 55
From: Irvine, CA USA
Registered: May 2014

posted 02-03-2016 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NukeGuy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is an article in Air&Space about Robert Gilruth that indicated that Gilruth, at least, was less than enthusiastic for continuing Apollo lunar missions after several landings. This was out of fear that fatalities could give congressional budget cutters a reason to stopped manned spaceflight for years.

Delta7
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Posts: 1527
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007

posted 02-03-2016 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sy Liebergot:
Which fight controllers? Where is this documented?
I can't remember where I read it originally. I did bring the matter up in a thread a couple of years ago. You posted "We were elated" in reference to the Apollo 17 splashdown. So I guess the answer is... you. At least that's the impression I got.

Delta7
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Posts: 1527
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007

posted 02-03-2016 02:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do remember reading an account of how NASA collectively breathed a sigh of relief when Apollo ended. So my basic questions is why? What was the biggest worry? Or even just to ask what above all else might have caused the people involved to wake up at night worrying, regardless of when the program ended?

rlobinske
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Posts: 155
From: Crawfordville, FL
Registered: Oct 2014

posted 02-04-2016 07:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rlobinske     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know if there was something that worried them "most", but the history of Apollo had a lot of close calls that were part of the complexity of the missions.
  • Apollo 10 LM temporarily out of control because of a misplaced switch.
  • Apollo 11 Comm troubles, computer errors and low on fuel during lunar approach
  • Apollo 12 struck by lightning during launch
  • Apollo 13 serious S-II pogo that caused an engine shutdown plus the more famous tank explosion
  • Apollo 14 faulty switch that could have caused an unwanted abort during lunar descent.
  • Apollo 15 LMP James Irwin's heart arrhythmia during EVA.
Mission control crew had to be on their toes for each mission, so I can see a sense of relief when the program concluded.

Even post-lunar Apollo had issues. The CSM for the second Skylab crew lost two RCS quads while the ASTP crew suffered from nitrogen tetroxide inhalation while awaiting recovery after splashdown.

tfrielin
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Posts: 162
From: Athens, GA
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 02-04-2016 10:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tfrielin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rlobinske:
...while the ASTP crew suffered from nitrogen tetroxide inhalation while awaiting recovery after splashdown.
It was much worse than that: The nitrogen tetroxide got sucked into the CM on descent when they failed to set the ELS switches to auto. Stafford had to manually deploy the parachute switches or they would have smacked into the ocean. If they'd all passed out (as did Brand) ASTP would have had a bad ending.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 02-04-2016 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not to mention the O2 tank that exploded on Apollo 13 had originally been installed on Apollo 10. That would have been an interesting "what if" as to whether or not the Apollo moon landing program would have been canceled sooner than 17, and how far to the right the first landing would have happened, assuming the A10 crew made it back alive.

Space Cadet Carl
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Posts: 225
From: Lake Orion, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 02-05-2016 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Cadet Carl   Click Here to Email Space Cadet Carl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't believe anyone was elated over the program ending. I've talked to Kranz and a couple other controllers that were inside the MOCR for Apollo 8 during Christmas, 1968. Gene wasn't in charge of "8", but he hung out in the MOCR anyway because of the immensity of flying to the Moon. I remember him saying many controllers had "sweaty palms" and they might have "grabbed the handles" once or twice, but they were also steely-eyed focused on what they were doing and they were prepared to repeat the job again and again without tiring for the next several years.

Jonnyed
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From: Dumfries, VA, USA
Registered: Aug 2014

posted 02-05-2016 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jonnyed   Click Here to Email Jonnyed     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seems like it's a communication shortfall: Verbalizing the concept of "elation" when what is really meant is "relief."

"Elation" communicates a positive outcome or reality disproportionately high compared with expectations. "Relief" is the easing of anxieties based on any number of negative possibilities (most somewhat remote) that never manifest themselves and were never set "expectations."

CMikeW
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From: United States
Registered: Apr 2013

posted 02-05-2016 09:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CMikeW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I spent my entire Apollo career at KSC. I remember watching the Apollo 17 launch, then driving all night to go to a job interview because I thought I was going to get laid off. Didn't get an offer, but then spent my time working on Skylab and ASTP. After ASTP I remember thinking that I was an expert at Apollo S/C handling and check out, but there weren't any more of them around. I was just too deep in the trench to think out the bigger picture until after the last launch.

Space Cadet Carl
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Posts: 225
From: Lake Orion, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 02-06-2016 07:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Cadet Carl   Click Here to Email Space Cadet Carl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CMikeW:
I was just too deep in the trench to think out the bigger picture...
That's probably what Kranz meant when he said "steely-eyed" to me. Too focused to think about anything else, CMike.

garymilgrom
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Posts: 1966
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 02-06-2016 10:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for garymilgrom   Click Here to Email garymilgrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
... and how far to the right the first landing would have happened, assuming the A10 crew made it back alive.
Sorry Hart I don't understand your comment. Do you mean how delayed in time the landing attempt would have been after a significant accident in the previous mission?

Sy Liebergot
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Posts: 501
From: Pearland, Texas USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 02-12-2016 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sy Liebergot   Click Here to Email Sy Liebergot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delta7:
At least that's the impression I got.
Not relief, dunno where you got that impression. Of course, we were all elated for another successful Apollo mission. Sadness came after the forthcoming Skylab and ASTP missions were completed.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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Posts: 3446
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 02-12-2016 10:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by garymilgrom:
Do you mean how delayed in time the landing attempt would have been after a significant accident in the previous mission?
Had an Apollo 13 accident happened on 10 — which is where the O2 tank was originally installed — it would be an interesting speculation as to how long the moon landing would be delayed, and how far the moon landing program would have gone. Would it have ended after just one landing on the moon? Would the Russians have caught up during the downtime?

oly
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From: Perth, Western Australia
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posted 02-13-2016 02:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Had the O2 tank failure occurred on Apollo 8 the results would be devastating.

Tykeanaut
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Posts: 2216
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008

posted 02-13-2016 04:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tykeanaut   Click Here to Email Tykeanaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Getting off the moon would have been high on my worry list.

robsouth
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Posts: 769
From: West Midlands, UK
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 02-13-2016 05:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for robsouth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delta7:
I know that when Apollo 17 splashed down, flight controllers "were elated" that the program was over and no crew was lost.

They did lose a crew. Apollo 1.

All times are CT (US)

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