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Author
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Topic: Lunar plaques on Apollo lunar modules
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mach3valkyrie
Member Posts: 729
From: Albany, Oregon
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-02-2015 10:12 PM
   
Any ideas as to why the Apollo 12 lunar module landing gear plaque is different from all the other LM plaques in that it shows no Earth hemispheres? |
Jonnyed
Member Posts: 552
From: Dumfries, VA, USA
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted 08-04-2015 07:28 PM
This is a damn good question. I spent some time surfing the internet looking for an explanation for this difference. Zero. Zip. Squat.So having exhausted all the leads on the web, I asked Alan Bean directly. He told me, "I have no idea." Seems this is a bit of a stumper... |
onesmallstep
Member Posts: 1351
From: Staten Island, New York USA
Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 08-05-2015 10:12 AM
If I were Al Bean, I would have answered, "I was supposed to paint them on, but I didn't have time!"  |
Space Cadet Carl
Member Posts: 291
From: Lake Orion, MI
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 08-05-2015 10:43 AM
The Apollo 12 plaque is different from ANY other plaque by not only missing the two hemispheres, but also by having its complete annotation in silver instead of black lettering. I'm looking forward to hearing why this happened. |
Captain Apollo
Member Posts: 322
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 08-05-2015 11:24 AM
Jack Kinzler died last year, so sadly too late to ask the designer. He also designed the flagstaff and Alan Shepard's golf club attachment. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3633
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 08-05-2015 11:53 AM
It was designed that way deliberately according to the Jack Kinzler Oral History interview in 1998. The next plaque here is Apollo 12. If you'll notice, we looked at the Apollo 11, a very important plaque. You'll notice 12 is kind of bare, just plain. That was done deliberately because we didn't want to make the Apollo 11 plaque seemingly less important. But this is Apollo 12, and in my case, it's very important, because Pete [Charles C.] Conrad [Jr.] was my next-door neighbor, and he was on that crew as the commander, and I suggested to him that he was going to have a plaque mounted on his ladder by the crews and it would have information on it about their names and all that, would he like to have light-weight copies? This is a thin aluminum light-weight copy of the plaque for 12. He said, "Yes, Jack, I would like to do that, but I want you to make four of those." So you're looking right now at the fourth plaque, which has been to the moon and back, and it was given to me personally by astronaut Charles Conrad. So I'm quite proud of that. |
Captain Apollo
Member Posts: 322
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 08-05-2015 05:58 PM
Interesting. In the full interview (link is to an edit) does he explain why they went back to the Apollo 11 design? It seems a bit contradictory, though I suppose there are only so many ways to record the same information. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3633
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 08-05-2015 09:20 PM
The interview mentions that four plaques were made. Here is a photo of the flown plaque that was given to Richard Gordon. It was Robert Gilruth who suggested putting the two hemispheres on the Apollo 11 plaque. They replaced a flag on the plaque, which was the first concept. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3633
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-15-2016 12:12 AM
You can see the LM ladder and plaque in this post-undocking photo. It looks to me like there might not be a cover over the plaque to remove.  |
oly
Member Posts: 1393
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 02-15-2016 04:26 PM
It is difficult to identify if the Apollo 12 LM has a cover on the plaque in that photo, the cover has a similar reflective surface and shape as the plaque in this Apollo 11 photo. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3633
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-15-2016 04:33 PM
The Apollo 11 cover also has a large latch. I don't see a similar latch in the Apollo 12 photo, but I do see a black border, like the plaque. |
Paul78zephyr
Member Posts: 762
From: Hudson, MA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 02-15-2016 06:20 PM
Actually only the plaques on 13, 14, 15, and 16 are really the same. The 11, 12, and 17 plaques are each unique.Not sure if everything posted here is accurate but you can at least see all seven plaques on one page.  |
Paul78zephyr
Member Posts: 762
From: Hudson, MA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 02-15-2016 06:39 PM
This is a photograph of the Apollo 11 plaque taken on the moon. I have not been able to find any pictures of any of the other mission plaques taken on the moon. Does anyone know if any of the other plaques were photographed on the moon? On edit: I found one of Apollo 17 (not a close up of it). Didn't find any others (yet).  |
oly
Member Posts: 1393
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 02-15-2016 07:09 PM
The plaque area is visible in photos of Al Bean descending the LM ladder on Apollo 12. However the detail is not clear enough and shadow area make details hard to see.I have searched for photos of the plaque cover maybe being discarded on the lunar surface but this area is also shaded in the surface photos of LM footpads. Was there any evidence on Apollo 11 that the cover was required for protection or was the cover designed more to limit the number of people knowing what the plague inscription was until the unveiling (which seems pointless but possible)? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3633
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 02-16-2016 06:17 PM
In the 16mm footage of the Apollo 16 undocking in lunar orbit, the LM pitches up and you can see the ladder and what looks to me like two darker areas where the two hemispheres would be on the plaque. If those really are the hemispheres, then there was no cover over the plaque. |
RocketmanRob
Member Posts: 291
From: New York City USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 03-16-2021 08:01 PM
I am very familiar with the plaque that was attached to the leg of the lunar module on Apollo 11. Were similar plaques carried for all lunar landing missions? If so, are pictures available of each one? Curious what each said and what variances there were across them. Editor's note: Threads merged. |
randy
Member Posts: 2576
From: West Jordan, Utah USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 03-16-2021 08:05 PM
I know there were ones on Apollos 13 and 17, not sure about the rest. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 48614
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-16-2021 09:25 PM
Merging the two threads, you can see the seven plaques above (as clipped from Wikipedia). |
Graves
Member Posts: 11
From: Pearlington MS
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted 03-17-2021 09:29 AM
For what it's worth, I have the wrong Apollo 13 plaque at INFINITY Science Center, the one before they said Ken Mattingly couldn't fly. |
Delta7
Member Posts: 1681
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 03-17-2021 05:47 PM
Interesting to think that if Apollos 18 and 19 had flown, Dick Gordon would've been the only astronaut to have his name on two plaques at different landing sites (Apollos 12 and 18). |
oly
Member Posts: 1393
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 03-17-2021 11:27 PM
While I understand and appreciate why the plaques were included for each mission, I am amazed that NASA included an allocation of time during the surface EVA exercises to address the plaque dedications. Apollo 11 dedication marked a historic event that was viewed worldwide, the culmination of effort put into putting a man on the moon and achieving Kennedy’s challenge.But the subsequent five successful lunar missions had tight surface activity schedules and goals that required some uncertainty in the planning about how long tasks may take. Apollo 12 tasks included deploying the color TV, the surface experiments, and the traverse and recovery of Surveyor parts. Apollo 14 had the rickshaw and an ambitious crater wall climb, and the last 3 missions had the deployment and testing of the rover and some ambitious experiments with drills and geologic sites of interest. All things that may take more time than planned. That the time allocation for the plaque dedication was not allocated elsewhere in the mission timeline is a good thing, because it allowed the focus to be centered on the journey to get there, and by association, on the people involved in getting there. So why then was the dedication of each plaque not included in the photo opportunity shot list? I would think that a photo of each astronaut standing by the plaque would have been a great memento for the crew and the people behind the scenes. |
Space Cadet Carl
Member Posts: 291
From: Lake Orion, MI
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 03-18-2021 07:48 AM
To Oly's point, I feel every moonwalker had moments after their missions where they wished they would have taken a few more artistic, non-scientific photos like posing with the plaques. A couple of them regretted not getting a good posed photo of themselves with gold visors up and their faces in full view. Conrad and Bean were "crazy" enough to think of taking a Hasselblad shutter timer with them for a planned group shot gag-photo with Surveyor 3, but that plan got messed up too because they couldn't find the shutter timer when it was time. |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1729
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 03-18-2021 08:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by oly:
I would think that a photo of each astronaut standing by the plaque
The ladder would be in the way. Not possible to have the plaque large enough and have astronaut in the photo. Look at the photo of the Apollo 17 plaque that has the astronaut's arms in it. It would have to be zoomed out to include more of the astronaut. The plaque isn't legible as it was. |
oly
Member Posts: 1393
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 03-18-2021 09:35 AM
I am sure that most would be satisfied with an image of the same proportions as this shot from Apollo 17. With a little more time to compose the image I am sure a better quality result could be achieved.Perhaps a piece of discarded Mylar would work as a photographic light reflector to enhance the lighting.  |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 48614
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-18-2021 09:45 AM
Just quickly playing with the exposure in Phootshop helps clear things up a bit: |
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