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Author
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Topic: Lunar surface training at NASA centers
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 04-30-2015 09:45 PM
  
Compare the gag photo with the photo of John Young in my first post. Same side view. The astronaut in the gag photo looks taller. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 05-29-2015 09:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
The gag photo referred to here was shown to Lovell several years ago, however, he told me it wasn't him!
I think it is Gene Cernan, backup commander for Apollo 14.On the American flag in the gag photo, there is a white line that looks like a small tear in the bottom red stripe. That same white line can be seen in this Apollo 14 KSC-70P-344 training photo of Gene Cernan in 1970.  |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-03-2015 02:22 PM
The small tear in his shoulder flag can also be seen in these KSC-70P-524 and KSC-71PC-33 photos of Cernan. 
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Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3111
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 06-03-2015 02:53 PM
I can't see the tear too well in the other photos, but very good detective work! Looks like a good chance it could be Cernan and maybe someone should ask him about the gag photo. Nice work! |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-03-2015 09:14 PM
Do you see the tear in any of the KSC photos, Ken?There was a high-res image of the gag photo on the Heritage website during the May auction. It clearly showed the same mark in the same location. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3111
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 06-04-2015 03:34 AM
Yes, I can see the tear quite clearly in the KSC 70P-344 photo, but I believe each crewman does have a prime and backup suit for various training purposes.When seeing the gag photo, though, my first impression was that the pressure suit had been of an earlier version. But since Cernan was the backup commander for Apollo 14, it would still be of that same time period originally thought of 1970 and perhaps even going into the first month of 1971. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-04-2015 07:06 AM
For Apollo 14, Gene Cernan has one suit listed in the ALSJ: primary suit #087. There is no training suit listed for him.Joe Engle has a primary suit and a training suit listed. His training suit #015 is the flight suit worn by Rusty Schweickart during the EVA on Apollo 9. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3111
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 06-04-2015 08:01 AM
Very good, LM-12, nice work! |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 06-13-2015 09:52 AM
The map seen in the gag photo contains a drawing of what looks like the traverse near Cone Crater. So the training session may have been an EVA-2 walkthru. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-13-2015 09:13 PM
This is the caption for Apollo 17 photo 72-H-1411 from the Apollo Image Gallery: Apollo 17 Lunar Module Pilot Harrison Schmitt deploys an explosive charge during the EVA-1 traverse in a training session November 2, 1972. That sure looks like backup commander John Young driving the LRV. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-13-2015 10:48 PM
The description for 72-H-1411 in the Apollo 17 Lunar Surface Journal mentions that it appears to be Young in the photo, and therefore the LMP might be Duke.I think the photo shows Young and Schmitt in the LRV. The name tag on the LMP looks more like "Schmitt" than "Duke" to me. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-17-2015 07:09 AM
The caption for NASA photo S72-54547 indicates that Cernan and Schmitt were on a geology field trip (the last one for Apollo 17) at Sunset Crater National Monument near Flagstaff, Arizona on 2-3 November 1972. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-18-2015 09:59 PM
Maybe photo 1411 was taken on November 9. The training summary has both the prime and backup astronauts in EVA-1 training sessions on that day. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 09-19-2015 12:03 AM
Apollo 15 lunar surface training photos 71-H-1102 and 71-H-1103 are described as showing backup crewmembers Dick Gordon and Jack Schmitt at KSC. 
I believe that may be prime LMP Jim Irwin and backup commander Dick Gordon training together. The "J. Irwin" name tag can be seen in high-res versions of the photos. Colour photo KSC-71PC-500 is tagged with the same date (July 20, 1971), and shows Dick Gordon wearing the yellow stripes. Gordon with Irwin, I would say. UPDATE: Dan Schaiewitz explains here that Schmitt was wearing Irwin's RCU, and Duke was wearing Schmitt's RCU in the training photos. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-11-2020 11:34 PM
Here is some Apollo 13 EVA training footage of Jim Lovell and Fred Haise training outdoors at what looks like the Manned Spacecraft Center in Houston. I did not know that they also trained outdoors in Houston.The LM mockup in the footage looks like the LM in Apollo 12 crew portrait photo. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-12-2020 07:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
When seeing the gag photo, though, my first impression was that the pressure suit had been of an earlier version.
That is a good observation, Ken. I believe the gag photo is A7L suit number 044, Cernan's Apollo 10 flight suit, with red stripes added on.Both the number "7-044" (marked below the neck ring) and the tear in the flag can be seen in the suit that Cernan is wearing in Apollo 14 training photo KSC-70P-344 linked earlier. |
davidcwagner
Member Posts: 851
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 11-12-2020 01:34 PM
Anyone have flag deployment training photos? I am interested because I have an Apollo 15 training used flag case. Understand that after Apollo 11, all flags were stowed in the MESA. On Apollo 11, the flag case was attached to the ladder. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-12-2020 02:20 PM
The Apollo 12 flag was stowed in a container on the LM ladder, like the Apollo 11 flag. The Apollo 13 and later flags were stowed in the MESA. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3515
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-14-2020 09:22 PM
The Apollo 15 crew training summary has this entry dated May 19, 1970 (so that would have been the original H-mission):
EVA with MET on Rockpile - Scott, Irwin, Gordon, Schmitt I think that was at MSC in Houston. They trained on LMS #1 the same day, and wasn't that LM simulator in Houston? |
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