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Author Topic:   Apollo command module: miles of wire
Rick Boos
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Posts: 851
From: Celina, Ohio
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 11-21-2013 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Boos   Click Here to Email Rick Boos     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have read different accounts of the number of miles of wiring in the Apollo command module. It ranges from 15 miles to 30 miles.

For years I was under the impression it was 30, but recently read accounts of the 15 mile figure. Which is correct?

Mike Dixon
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From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 11-21-2013 03:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I recall correctly, a newspaper article in '71 prior to the Apollo 14 mission suggested it was 14 miles.

mikej
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From: Germantown, WI USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 11-23-2013 05:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mikej   Click Here to Email mikej     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Apollo Spacecraft News Reference states that:
The 12-foot-tall Apollo spacecraft command module contains almost 15 miles of wire, enough to wire 50 two-bedroom homes.

Blackarrow
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From: Belfast, United Kingdom
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posted 05-14-2020 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are there any "official" or "definitive" figures for the length of electrical wiring in the Block 1 and Block 2 Apollo command modules?

As each spacecraft was an individual vehicle, I'm sure no two spacecraft had exactly the same length of wiring, and I can't imagine anyone could ever have measured the precise length of the wiring, but if we take the example of Apollo 1, there are widely-differing estimates. I have seen 12 miles, 20 miles and 30 miles, which actually makes it look like guesswork.

Editor's note: Threads merged.

Jim Behling
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From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 05-14-2020 09:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
I'm sure no two spacecraft had exactly the same length of wiring...
Not true, the wiring harnesses were built on templates and then installed in the spacecraft.

Blackarrow
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From: Belfast, United Kingdom
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posted 05-14-2020 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's interesting, but it implies that it should be easy to state the precise length of electrical wiring in a Block 2 command module. Furthermore, if a similar method was used for Block 1, specifically on Apollo 1, why are there so many conflicting figures quoted?

oly
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From: Perth, Western Australia
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posted 05-15-2020 02:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Information provided to the congressional hearing into the Apollo 1 accident recorded that, "I could add just a point perhaps about the wiring: There are according to the figures I have, 30 miles of wire in a spacecraft, and there are 13,000 segments of wire."

Later on in the report: "I think the problem that we have here is that we have got to recognize with 20 miles of wire, and the amount of work that goes on during fabrication."

My take from this report is that there is either around 30 miles of wiring in an Apollo Saturn V rocket, 20 miles of which is in the command and service modules, or that a consolidated total of wire lengths is difficult to come by. The figure will exist within the NAA build data somewhere.

This official document identifies that the command module has 15 miles of wire.

SpaceAholic
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From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
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posted 05-15-2020 06:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A "total length" figure depends on the metric being applied. There was far more then 20 miles of wire in the Apollo spacecraft if assessing on an aggregate component level basis. The six AGC rope memory modules alone required several miles.

NavyPilot
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posted 05-15-2020 07:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NavyPilot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As an engineer, I always distrust "data" that is a perfect multiple or half-multiple of the number of fingers on my hands. Just sayin'.

Jim Behling
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From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010

posted 05-15-2020 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Behling   Click Here to Email Jim Behling     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
...but it implies that it should be easy to state the precise length of electrical wiring in a Block 2 command module.
No, it isn't easy. It would mean somebody would have to go through the actual effort to add it all up. That isn't simple and would be time consuming (expensive).

It is just an estimate.

oly
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From: Perth, Western Australia
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posted 05-15-2020 10:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The process of manufacturing aerospace wiring looms during the Apollo era was mostly done by hand, with each wire termination having several steps, and multiple looms used. Large table or wall mounted templates were used as patterns for each loom.

Electrical components have multiple pinouts, some used as power supply, others for signal transfer, and other to complete circuits. Many wires have multiple cores and a shield sleeve and they may pass through couplings (plugs) at frames or bulkheads. The components receive wires from multiple sources and feed wires back to instruments, other components, or complete the circuit via frame or switch.

Loom manufacture is not simply a case of make one and install, consider each switch and circuit breaker having multiple wire connections and many systems have redundancy that is fed from alternate power sources located in different areas, including onboard batteries and external sources fed umbilically.

Large wires are made as short as possible to save weight and space, with electrical relays activated by smaller gauge wire. Some of these have feedback circuits for system indications annunciation or verification.

The majority of looms would be manufactured with the plugs or connectors installed at one end, the wires would be run along specified pathways and several looms would be integrated together into bundles, with specific wires branching off where required. Once installed and secured, the second end of the wire would be prepared by stripping the insulation material, and depending upon the type of termination required, soldered or terminated using crimped pins designed to fit into the desired plug or socket, switch or terminal board.

The process would allow for additional length during manufacture to avoid making a loom too short, the act of removing a short wire and replacing from a large bundle that snakes around a structure is huge, and any excess wire is cut away during the termination process. How much wire is cut away may not be huge lengths, but with the stated 13,000 wires, the length and weight would add up. (another advantage using this method versus pre-making the complete loom as a single unit).

Each wire termination was hermetically sealed on Block B vehicles using various methods. Places where wiring was to pass from inside the vehicle cabin to outside, specialist connections are used, which makes additional joints. The requirement to reduce the number of pressure vessel pass through points means that it is not always feasible to simply run wires from point A to point B.

Finally, during access and maintenance it is possible that wires get damaged or need to be re-terminated for fault finding or component replacement, meaning some additional length of wire should be left during installation just in case. Failing to do this results in the subject wire needing replacement, making the gaining access to the installed looms difficult on completed vehicles.

It is well known that the lunar module wiring looms were a target of the weight saving program, with several iterations being made using lighter gauge wire and light weight insulations. These light gauge wires became problematic for maintenance engineering staff.

All this means that while a 12 foot length wire may have been called up in engineering orders for a specific wire number, it does not mean that the final installed length was 12 feet. How much was removed?

nasamad
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From: Essex, UK
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posted 05-15-2020 10:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nasamad   Click Here to Email nasamad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a picture somewhere of a wiring harness being put into the crew module of an orbiter. It was so massive and thick it was being put in through one of the cockpit windows by about 15 engineers who looked like they were wrestling a giant Anaconda!

I can easily believe 15-20 miles crammed into a CM given that picture of the orbiter.

Blackarrow
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From: Belfast, United Kingdom
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posted 05-16-2020 09:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wasn't aware, when I asked the question, that Rick Boos had asked essentially the same question in 2013, but based on the various answers, it looks like there can be no "true" answer, much like the impossibility of measuring the precise length of (say) the Norwegian coast. (Do you measure every inlet of every inlet of every inlet?)

Jim Behling suggests that an accurate answer would require someone "...to go through the actual effort to add it all up." One would like to think that someone paid by NASA (or one of its contractors) went to some effort to arrive at the figure of 15 miles* contained in the Apollo Spacecraft News Reference. Unless, of course, it was just a "best guess" to satisfy the needs of the press for "gee whizz figures."

It seems odd that the figure of 15 miles stated by NASA contradicts the already contradictory figures quoted from the Apollo 1 congressional hearings. I assume those figures of 30 miles and 20 miles quoted from the Apollo 1 hearings were given on oath by people doing their best to give accurate information.

Based on all of the above contributions, I am not persuaded that anyone knows, or will ever know, the "correct" answer, but it remains puzzling that the estimates cover such a wide range (based on the above, between 14 miles and 30 miles). I can appreciate NavyPilot's scepticism about "data." I think the only safe answer is "many miles of wiring."

*Even NASA's News Reference contains a slight divergence, referring both to "about 15 miles" and "almost 15 miles."

sev8n
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From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012

posted 05-16-2020 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
Unless, of course, it was just a "best guess" to satisfy the needs of the press for "gee whizz figures."
I would agree this was just a rough estimate solely for the gee whiz factor. I doubt NASA cared about the total length, the total mass (weight) was the more important measurement.

NavyPilot
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From:
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posted 05-16-2020 11:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NavyPilot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wire mass also is a function of wire gauge and depth of insulation, which themselves derive from electrical loads and signal integrity moreso than vehicle weight bogeys. Relays weigh a heckuva lot more than splices, so target functionality (ITO status displays, switches, redundancy, etc.) also plays a key role in how weight accrues.

I've always considered that, from a quality/safety perspective, number of terminations is more relevant than length of runs. The industry concerns itself a lot with bend radii, riding conditions, suspension support, and electromagnetic interference too.

Wiring is a real art form, especially in cramped vehicles like spacecraft and small tactical aircraft. I get impressed regularly by how elegantly and gracefully design engineers allocate and package wiring bundles.

I think that Block I was a suprisingly deep disappointment to the managers who had spent their entire careers in the aerospace field, and who knew personally what the state of the art really was and should have been.

Headshot
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From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 05-17-2020 03:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This discussion caused my mind to go back in time to when I read "We Seven" for the first time. When John Glenn discussed the Mercury capsule he gave his chapter the title, "Seven Miles of Wire - And a Swizzle Stick."

I thought fitting seven miles of wire in a Mercury capsule was a tremendous feat, but putting 15 miles of wire in an Apollo is awesome too.

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