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Author
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Topic: Saturn V versus space shuttle launch: how loud?
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Space Cadet Carl
Member Posts: 225
From: Lake Orion, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 07-15-2011 12:25 PM
   
While watching the STS-135 launch from the NASA Causeway last Friday, our tour guide mentioned that the sound of the launch seemed not as loud as it typically is (weather or wind direction?). That brings me to a question...Is there anyone out there that has witnessed both a Saturn V launch and a space shuttle launch in person that can compare both for us? I've been told that Saturn V launches shook the ground and were much louder than shuttle launches. Can an eyewitness confirm this? |
Rick Mulheirn
Member Posts: 4208
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 07-15-2011 01:49 PM
I asked the same question of many "old timers" when I was in Florida for STS-125. To a person they all said the Saturn V was louder and much slower away from the pad... so it was louder for longer.I don't recall the ground shaking for STS-125 but recall vividly the compressions on my chest as the vehicle crackled and picked up speed. Several ceiling tiles and a few photo frames in the media center were shaken loose too... |
Fezman92
Member Posts: 1031
From: New Jersey, USA
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 07-15-2011 02:09 PM
With 134, the sound seemed a bit muffled and distant. Could have been because of the clouds. But I did feel it in my chest. |
star61
Member Posts: 294
From: Bristol UK
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 07-15-2011 04:33 PM
I watched STS-26 from NASA causeway and remember shouting and yelling GO!! as loud as I could and not hearing my own voice!I have a cassette tape recording from STS-1 made by my friend who was at both these launches. On the tape the sound is amazing. You can here the crackling and rattling of the panels on the car. He confirms STS-1 was louder and I believe this was because of less water suppression. Just going by videos and recordings of Saturn V , I would say it was definitely louder. Listening to Cronkite in his media shack getting rattled away is just hair on the back neck stuff! Marvelous... I like loud engines.  |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 07-15-2011 05:38 PM
The decibel level of a Saturn V is about the same as shuttle (and Ares 1-X) and this is based on my questioning of others and data I've collected on my own (audio recordings mainly). Shuttle doesn't seem as loud as it ascends off the pad much faster while the Saturn has a slower liftoff and the soundwaves bounce around in the denser air for a bit longer. One of the guys I questioned was Gerry Griffin who has seen Saturn V (Skylab launch), Shuttle and Ares 1-X in person at either VIP stands or near the press site. |
golddog
Member Posts: 210
From: australia
Registered: Feb 2008
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posted 07-15-2011 08:54 PM
I had a wonderful experience witnessing STS-126 lift off whilst on a boat in the water ways south of the pad but the wind was coming from the south so the noise was unfortunately muted. It was a night launch so the visuals made up for that! I was struck by how fast the shuttle ascends - it just seemed so much quicker in real life than what I had seen on TV over the years, and from what I have seen of Apollo launches on video the Saturn V definitely seems to rise much slower - what I wouldn't give to have been able to see one of those live! |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1758
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 07-16-2011 06:43 AM
I saw STS-95 from the causeway and I was disappointed with the sound level. My buddy and I carried on a conversation at normal voice levels with no problem. |
Max Q
Member Posts: 399
From: Whyalla South Australia
Registered: Mar 2007
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posted 07-16-2011 10:09 AM
Very interesting thread but I wonder what NASA actually say they must have measurements of the noise at launch. |
tfrielin
Member Posts: 162
From: Athens, GA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 07-16-2011 11:45 AM
The Saturn V was louder than the Shuttle. I saw the last Saturn V go from the VAB viewing site on May 14, 1973. That's about three miles distance. Also saw the last three Saturn 1Bs from that same location as well as half a dozen Shuttle launches from the KSC grounds over the years, including the Press Site and the Saturn V Museum viewing site at Banana Creek and other sites. The Saturn V was louder and generally more an impressive aural and visual site for several reasons: It five F-1 engines simply produced more thrust than a Shuttle -- the last Saturn Vs producing about 7.7 million pounds of thrust. Plus the F-1 had a low frequency component to it that literally rattled your ribcage and shook the ground. One of my main memories of that Saturn V was the concussion beat on your chest like someone pounding your chest with his fists. Plus the Saturn V simply stuck around longer. Michael Collins called it more of a levitation than a liftoff -- slow and ponderous. On my audio tape of the launch you can't hear anyone say anything for about a minute the noise was so overwhelming. It has been likened to "staccato popping" which is accurate if one can imagine the magnitude of this particular "popping." Also bear in mind the Saturn was radially symmetrical and its acoustic energy radiated equally in all directions, whereas the Shuttle was not so and it tended to radiate its acoustic energy more directionally. I recall getting the loudest noise on Shuttle launches at the Press Site where I suppose the business end of the engines was more directly aimed at you. As I recall the decibel level of the Saturn V at the VAB site was about 135 -- that's approaching the pain threshold. I do not know what decibel level the Shuttle produced. But I do know the Saturn V wins hands down on pure noise making. |
arjuna
unregistered
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posted 07-16-2011 04:40 PM
My understanding (this was before my time) is that the first Saturn V launch of Apollo 4 was so loud and resonant that it shook the ceiling tiles off the CBS booth where Walter Cronkite was announcing from. And this was one of the "lessons learned" that led to NASA installing the water/sound suppression system in subsequent Saturn V (and other) launches. This launch is described in detail in Charles Murray and C.B. Cox's "Apollo", and is a fantastic description - worth the price of the book. Checking... found the passage (pp 234-242 of the paperback edition): As the Saturn V moved off the pad, the sound finally reached across the marsh and slammed into the viewing area. It came first through the ground, tremors that shook the viewing stand and rattled its corrugated iron roof. Then came the noise, 120 decibels of it, in staccato bursts. People who were there would recall it not as a sound, but as a physical force. In the CBS broadcast booth, the plate-glass window began to shake so violently that Walter Cronkite had to hold it in place with his hands as he tried to continue his commentary. |
Fezman92
Member Posts: 1031
From: New Jersey, USA
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 07-16-2011 05:14 PM
I saw somewhere, not sure if it is accurate though that the Saturn V launch was the second loudest thing created by man with the first loudest being an atomic bomb exploding. No clue if it is accurate. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 43576
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-16-2011 05:20 PM
What's old is new again: Saturn V - the loudest sound? |
star61
Member Posts: 294
From: Bristol UK
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 07-16-2011 06:01 PM
After a thermonuclear detonation, I believe the next loudest man made event was the test runs of the NERVA nuclear engine just south of Yucca flats. Doh!... I appear to have said same thing on the other Sound Of Saturn thread and have yet to source this info. Must try harder... |
Lou Chinal
Member Posts: 1332
From: Staten Island, NY
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 07-16-2011 06:23 PM
Space Cadet Carl, Rick and everyone else. Thanks for the memiores this post brings back.Yes, I also vote for the Saturn V. |
328KF
Member Posts: 1251
From:
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 07-17-2011 09:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by tfrielin:
...the Shuttle was not so and it tended to radiate its acoustic energy more directionally. I recall getting the loudest noise on Shuttle launches at the Press Site where I suppose the business end of the engines was more directly aimed at you.
It caught me by surprise reading your post that we are now referring to the shuttle in the past tense.  I never got to see a Saturn launch, but I have seen my fair share of shuttle launches, from Titusville to the NASA causeway to the VIP site. In my experience, the farther away you were the effect wind direction had on what you heard and felt. I don't recall the relationship of my location to the direction of the main engine thrust making any difference at all. As the vehicle turns in the roll program, I do not think there was any appreciable change in the noise/ vibration level. This, I believe, was due simply to the fact that the SRB shock waves were so much more powerful once they lit that the mains were a small component of the total sound. I also had an interesting conversation with another viewer at the 135 launch about supersonic shockwaves and any sonic boom from the vehicle reaching the ground. I don't think this occurs, due to the shock radiating upward and outward from the pointy ends of the vehicle in the climb. During landing, of course, the vehicle is in a more or less horizontal attitude, and "drags" the boom across the ground as it flies by. |
RKoenn
New Member Posts: 2
From: Merritt Island, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2011
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posted 08-09-2011 02:07 PM
I saw Apollo 16 from SR3 just north of the VAB and I've seen numerous shuttle launches from the VAB parking lots. I also saw the Skylab lab launch from the causeway between KSC and the cape. Now obviously my Saturn memories aren't too recent but I would say that I literally felt the Saturn sound as a light patting on my chest. I mean I literally could feel the shock waves vibrating on my chest as if someone was lightly patting me. It was a clear sunny day with not a cloud in the sky for that launch. I have experienced shuttles at various levels of sound. There have been three or four that were quite loud and the difference is noticeable and due to atmospheric conditions. However I would have to say that the Saturn V was definitely a step above the shuttle. |
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