Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

Websites
related space history websites

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Mercury - Gemini - Apollo
  Remembering the original Gemini 9 crew (Page 1)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search


This topic is 3 pages long:   1  2  3 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Remembering the original Gemini 9 crew
perineau
Member

Posts: 20
From: FRANCE
Registered: Jul 2007

posted February 28, 2011 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for perineau   Click Here to Email perineau     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
45 years ago, the original crew of Gemini 9, Charles Bassett II and Elliot See Jr. died in a plane crash while on their way to inspect their Gemini capsule. I hope that one day, this crew will be included in the remembrance day organized by NASA for Apollo 1 as well as the Challenger 51L crew and the crew of STS-107. I have sent several emails to NASA on this matter, they have never bothered to reply...

Delta7
Member

Posts: 1057
From: Ossian IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 28, 2011 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

Gilbert
Member

Posts: 825
From: Carrollton, GA USA
Registered: Jan 2003

posted February 28, 2011 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gilbert   Click Here to Email Gilbert     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

star51L
Member

Posts: 108
From: Vilano Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted February 28, 2011 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for star51L   Click Here to Email star51L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

I always felt Charlie Bassett would have proven to be one of the best astronauts ever chosen.

jasonelam
Member

Posts: 364
From: Monticello, KY USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted February 28, 2011 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jasonelam   Click Here to Email jasonelam     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

Henk Boshuijer
Member

Posts: 350
From: Netherlands
Registered: May 2007

posted February 28, 2011 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Henk Boshuijer   Click Here to Email Henk Boshuijer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

MB
Member

Posts: 74
From: Olmsted Falls, Ohio U.S.A.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted February 28, 2011 05:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MB   Click Here to Email MB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

dabolton
Member

Posts: 128
From: Round Lake, IL, US
Registered: Jan 2009

posted February 28, 2011 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dabolton   Click Here to Email dabolton     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

onesmallstep
Member

Posts: 258
From: Staten Island, New York USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted February 28, 2011 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for onesmallstep   Click Here to Email onesmallstep     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

Tom
Member

Posts: 1150
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000

posted February 28, 2011 06:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom   Click Here to Email Tom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Elliot / Charlie...45 years later, you're still in our thoughts and prayers.

MikeSpace
Member

Posts: 280
From: Belmar NJ USA
Registered: Oct 2010

posted February 28, 2011 06:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MikeSpace   Click Here to Email MikeSpace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

Delta7
Member

Posts: 1057
From: Ossian IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 28, 2011 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whenever I fly into Lambert Field as a corporate pilot, I wind up parking very close to the crash site. Last time it was low overcast and snowy, and I couldn't help visualize a T-38 circling by very low and suddenly hitting the afterburners.

May God speed always, Elliot and Charlie.

dtemple
Member

Posts: 568
From: Longview, Texas, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted February 28, 2011 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dtemple   Click Here to Email dtemple     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have been to Lambert International a few times and have tried to determine which building was struck by the T-38, but without any success. In case I am there again can I see it from the terminal or perhaps on approach/takeoff?

Fezman92
Member

Posts: 874
From: New Jersey, USA
Registered: Mar 2010

posted February 28, 2011 08:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fezman92   Click Here to Email Fezman92     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

micropooz
Member

Posts: 1147
From: Washington, DC, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted February 28, 2011 08:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for micropooz   Click Here to Email micropooz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When I went to work for McDonnell Douglas in the early 1980's, one of the older guys was showing me through Building 101, which at the time was the assembly line for the Harrier. He pointed out to me where the roof and rafters had been repaired after the Bassett and See crash. It was toward the north end of the building.

Building 101 is the large white topped building in the center of this photo.

dss65
Member

Posts: 756
From: Sandpoint, ID, USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted February 28, 2011 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dss65   Click Here to Email dss65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

GACspaceguy
Member

Posts: 1075
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted March 01, 2011 12:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

randy
Member

Posts: 1115
From: West Jordan, Utah USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted March 01, 2011 03:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for randy   Click Here to Email randy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

history in miniature
Member

Posts: 378
From: Slatington, PA U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2009

posted March 01, 2011 05:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for history in miniature   Click Here to Email history in miniature     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

astro-nut
Member

Posts: 425
From: washington, Illinois USA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted March 01, 2011 12:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for astro-nut   Click Here to Email astro-nut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.


Never forgotten!!!

Henry Heatherbank
Member

Posts: 116
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Apr 2005

posted March 01, 2011 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Henry Heatherbank     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Never forgotten indeed, given the impact this event had on the course of history taken in the remainder of the Gemini and Apollo programs.

How history may have been different if See and Bassett had not died on that day.

Lou Chinal
Member

Posts: 879
From: Staten Island, NY
Registered: Jun 2007

posted March 01, 2011 04:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lou Chinal   Click Here to Email Lou Chinal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

Jeff
Member

Posts: 183
From: Fayetteville, NC, USA
Registered: May 2009

posted March 01, 2011 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jeff   Click Here to Email Jeff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

cddfspace
Member

Posts: 596
From: Morris County, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted March 01, 2011 09:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cddfspace   Click Here to Email cddfspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

Kite
Member

Posts: 146
From: Northampton UK
Registered: Nov 2009

posted March 02, 2011 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kite     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
. .

Delta7
Member

Posts: 1057
From: Ossian IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007

posted March 02, 2011 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There's little doubt in my mind that Charlie Bassett would have been one of the 12 men to walk on the moon had he lived.

ColinBurgess
Member

Posts: 1432
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2003

posted March 02, 2011 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No doubt at all in my mind.

Charlie had already been informed by Deke Slayton that if GT-9 went well he was in line for one of the early Apollo missions, and Slayton felt that he would work well on a crew with Frank Borman and Bill Anders.

This of course meant that he may well have flown as senior pilot on Apollo 8. I'm sure he would have then stuck around for a lunar landing mission. He was very highly regarded and respected by his peers, both as a pilot and as a person.

JohnPaul56
Member

Posts: 27
From: Montclair, NJ, USA
Registered: Apr 2010

posted March 02, 2011 07:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JohnPaul56     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
..

Scott
Member

Posts: 3278
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001

posted March 02, 2011 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

LM-12
Member

Posts: 399
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted February 28, 2012 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA photo S66-15620 is the original Gemini 9 crew portrait of See and Bassett. The image is dated 01/05/1966.

Both the prime (See-Bassett) and backup (Stafford-Cernan) Gemini 9 crews can be seen in photo S66-15622.

mach3valkyrie
Member

Posts: 30
From: Albany, Oregon USA
Registered: Jul 2006

posted February 28, 2012 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mach3valkyrie   Click Here to Email mach3valkyrie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

jasonelam
Member

Posts: 364
From: Monticello, KY USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted February 29, 2012 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jasonelam   Click Here to Email jasonelam     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can remember flying into St Louis in January, 1996 and seeing the building they hit right before we landed. It was a really emotional moment, especially when you consider the weather conditions were similar to that bad day 30 years prior.

I agree NASA needs to remember February 28th and the memory of See and Bassett in much the same way as they remember 51L, Columbia and Apollo 1.

LM-12
Member

Posts: 399
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted March 07, 2012 10:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chapter 14 in NASA SP-4203 On the Shoulders of Titans: A History of Project Gemini has an account of what happened that day.
One bright winter morning, the last day of February 1966, the Gemini IX foursome checked into Ellington Air Force Base, Texas, for flight clearance to St. Louis in two dual-seat T-38 jet aircraft. They planned to spend several days practicing on the rendezvous simulator at the McDonnell plant.

At Ellington, the four fliers learned that weather in St. Louis was gloomy: 180-meter overcast, visibility 3 kilometers, rain, and fog, with little change expected. Instrument flight rules would be required. See called the St. Louis air traffic controllers, saying he would see them in a couple of hours. He and Cernan discussed the different runways at Lambert Field in St. Louis. See then climbed into the front seat of one T-38, with Bassett easing into the back seat. Stafford and Cernan got into the other plane. They took off from Ellington at 7:35 a.m. See and Bassett led, with Stafford and Cernan flying wing position.

Reaching St. Louis just before 9 o'clock, See radioed the Lambert Field control tower and learned that the overcast had lifted to 240 meters since his earlier call, but the visibility had dropped to 2.4 kilometers. Light snow flurries now mixed with the rain and fog. As the aircraft descended through the overcast, the pilots found themselves too far down the runway to land. See elected to keep the field in sight and he circled to the left underneath the cloud cover. Stafford followed a missed approach procedure and climbed straight ahead into the soup to 600 meters, intending to make another instrument approach. He landed safely on his next attempt.

Meanwhile, See had continued his left turn. The aircraft angled toward McDonnell Building 101, where technicians were working on the very spacecraft See and Bassett were scheduled to fly. Apparently recognizing that his sink rate was too high, See cut in his afterburners and attempted a sharp right turn; but it was too late. The aircraft struck the roof of the building and crashed into a courtyard. Both pilots were killed.

NASA named a seven-man board to investigate the accident. Led by Astronaut Alan B. Shepard, Jr.,* the board looked into all aspects of the tragedy - aircraft maintenance, pilot experience, medical histories, and weather conditions. Shepard's group listened to testimony from everyone who had anything to say, sifted the wreckage for clues, and drew conclusions. They found nothing wrong with the aircraft; it had functioned properly to the moment of impact. Within the past six months, See and Bassett had renewed their instrument flying certificates. Before and during the flight, both men had been in good physical and mental condition, as attested by medical examinations and by reported pre- and in-flight conversations. Furthermore, See was reputed to be an excellent test pilot. Careful, judicious, and technically competent, he should never have crashed at all. Weather appeared to have been the major contributing cause, and pilot error prompted by a desire not to lose sight of the field had carried them too low.

On Wednesday, 2 March 1966, Spacecraft No. 9, on its way to the flight dock for shipment to Cape Kennedy, passed an American flag flying at half-mast at the McDonnell plant. The next day, Elliot See and Charles Bassett, attended by their fellow astronauts, were buried in Arlington National Cemetery across the Potomac from the Nation's capital.

NASA assigned the Gemini IX prime crew positions to Stafford and Cernan, marking the first time in the agency's manned space flight history that a backup crew had taken over a mission. On 21 March James Lovell and Edwin Aldrin were given the backup duties. There would be no delay in the launch schedule.

garymilgrom
Member

Posts: 1113
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007

posted March 07, 2012 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for garymilgrom   Click Here to Email garymilgrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With all due respect - NASA memorials seem to be for accidents where equipment failed and astronauts died as a result.

This accident was the result of a poor decision by Mr. See. Mr. Stafford, faced with the same situation, made a different decision and lived to visit the moon.

I don't think this tragedy falls into the same category as those that befell Apollo 1, STS-51L or STS-107. Just my opinion.

LM-12
Member

Posts: 399
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted March 07, 2012 06:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The KSC Astronaut Memorial also honours See, Bassett, Freeman, Williams, Carter, Adams and Lawrence.

ilbasso
Member

Posts: 1303
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted March 08, 2012 08:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just finished re-reading Gene Cernan's "Last Man on the Moon," in which he said that there were widespread concerns in the astronaut corps about Mr. See's flying abilities before the accident. Everything I've read does make the accident appear to be pilot error.

One of the primary reasons the astronauts were given T-38's to fly was to keep them sharp, to put them in situations where their lives were riding on their abilities to make snap decisions when something didn't go as planned. There were no consequences to fouling up in a simulator other than looking bad to one's peers or to management. Screw up in a T-38, though, and you pay the price.

It's a shame that two astronauts died, and many workers in the plant were injured, as a result of a bad decision. It's fortunate that Mr. See's plane did not destroy the four Gemini spacecraft being assembled in the plant that day. What would that have done to America's race to the Moon?

Delta7
Member

Posts: 1057
From: Ossian IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007

posted March 08, 2012 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As a long-time professional pilot, from what I've read about the accident it was entirely avoidable and frankly inexcusable. Either deliberately or inadvertently.

See allowed his altitude to descend well below circling minimums for that approach, as evidenced by the fact he was forced to pull up AND fire afterburners in a desperate attempt to avoid the obstacle he suddenly became aware of. Standard procedure is to NOT descend below the prescribed circling altitude until you are in a position to do so safely and land; See obviously violated this by a wide margin being BELOW the height of buildings!

I always wonder how much Bassett was aware of what See was setting them up for and if he had any role in the decision to "Pour on the coals" and get out of there. It all probably happened so fast so possibly not, at least to it's fullest extent until the last few seconds.

Tom Stafford's remark to Gene Cernan as See broke off and began the circling maneuver pretty much sums it up: "What the hell is he doing?!"

Glint
Member

Posts: 593
From: New Windsor, Maryland USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted March 08, 2012 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glint   Click Here to Email Glint     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ilbasso:
I just finished re-reading Gene Cernan's "Last Man on the Moon," in which he said that there were widespread concerns in the astronaut corps about Mr. See's flying abilities before the accident.

I admire Gene Cernan and intend no disrespect. But isn't this a little like the pot calling the kettle black?

This, of course, is in reference to Cernan's 1971 helicopter crash in which there was "no evidence of any mechanical malfunction."

To be fair, Cernan isn't necessarily stating his own opinion. He's simply repeating the opinions, or rumors of opinions, that he once heard.

ilbasso
Member

Posts: 1303
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted March 08, 2012 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cernan owned up to his own stupidity in his chopper crash. Deke Slayton tried to give him a cover story that his engine had quit, but Cernan insisted on taking responsibility for his error in judgment.

Cernan also trained as a formation flyer when he was flying off carriers, so I assume his jet skills were pretty sharp.

LM-12
Member

Posts: 399
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted March 08, 2012 08:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The NASA biography for Elliot See is here. The NASA biography for Charles Bassett is here.


This topic is 3 pages long:   1  2  3 

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 1999-2012 collectSPACE.com All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement