Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

Websites
related space history websites

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Mercury - Gemini - Apollo
  Crew assignments for hypothetical Gemini 13-15?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Crew assignments for hypothetical Gemini 13-15?
NASAROB
Member

Posts: 38
From: Astoria NY
Registered: Feb 2009

posted 02-22-2009 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NASAROB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What if it was Gemini not Apollo that had three planned missions that were cancelled. Who would you pick for those additional three flights. How about:
  • Gemini 13 - Ed White / C C Williams
  • Gemini 14 - Gene Cernan / Al Bean
  • Gemini 15 - Mike Collins / Bill Anders

Delta7
Member

Posts: 1196
From: Ossian IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007

posted 02-22-2009 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My "Deke for a day" prediction:
  • Gemini XIII: Cooper/Bean
  • Gemini XIV: Armstrong/Anders
  • Gemini XV: Young/Williams

robsouth
Member

Posts: 626
From: West Midlands, UK
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 02-23-2009 03:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for robsouth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If the back up crew rotation system was adhered to then the official crews would have been:
  • Gemini 13 - Alan Bean / C C Williams
  • Gemini 14 - Neil Armstrong / William Anders
  • Gemini 15 - Gordon Cooper / Eugene Cernan
To be honest I can't think of any changes I'd make to those crews.

Fra Mauro
Member

Posts: 1058
From: Maspeth, NY
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 02-24-2009 08:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fra Mauro   Click Here to Email Fra Mauro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This post makes me wonder what the missions could have accomplished since by GT-12, the program objectives had been met. Perhaps a circumlunar flight or a mission with an early Apollo flight.

carmelo
Member

Posts: 813
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 02-24-2009 12:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for carmelo   Click Here to Email carmelo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by robsouth:
To be honest I can't think of any changes I'd make to those crews.
I agree.
  • Gemini 13 February 1967 - Rendezvous with Agena and EVAs
  • Gemini 14 May 1967 - Rendezvous with Agena and EVAs with AMU
  • Gemini 15 August 1967 - Rendezvous and inspection of non-cooperative satellites (Pegasus)
  • Apollo 1 (Block II CM) December 1967

Delta7
Member

Posts: 1196
From: Ossian IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007

posted 02-24-2009 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If there had actually been plans for Gemini 13, 14, and 15, the backup crews for Geminis 10, 11 and 12 would have reflected that and likely been somewhat different. Those 3 extra missions would also have required backup crews.

Proponent
Member

Posts: 59
From: London
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 02-24-2009 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Proponent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NASAROB:
What if it was Gemini not Apollo that had three planned missions that were cancelled.
I'd heard vaguely about the original plan being to fly 15 Gemini missions (with three craft flying twice), but do you have any good references on the topic?

Proponent
Member

Posts: 59
From: London
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 02-24-2009 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Proponent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by robsouth:
To be honest I can't think of any changes I'd make to those crews.
I agree with Delta7: had missions 13-15 been flown, the back-up crews on flights 10-12 would have been somewhat different. Deke probably would have wanted to continue to expand the number of astros who had experience and had experienced command. Thus, I doubt that Armstrong or Cooper would have flown again. How about White, Scott or Cernan as commanders, in addition to Bean? Possibilities for a right-hand seat, aside from Anders and Williams, might include Chaffee, Cunningham, Eisele and Schweikert.

I can see one argument for Cernan flying again. In his bio he mentions there was talk of him flying Gemini 12 instead of Aldrin in order to test out the backpack that he didn't succeed in donning on Gemini 9.

Proponent
Member

Posts: 59
From: London
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 02-24-2009 01:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Proponent     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fra Mauro:
This post makes me wonder what the missions could have accomplished since by GT-12, the program objectives had been met. Perhaps a circumlunar flight or a mission with an early Apollo flight.

More work could certainly have been done on EVA techniques. Maybe one of the backpacks that had been scheduled to be tested on Geminis 8 and 9 could have been tried.

A circumlunar mission is unlikely, as it would have required significant hardware development and would have been expensive.

webhamster
Member

Posts: 100
From: Ottawa, Canada
Registered: Jul 2008

posted 02-27-2009 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for webhamster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Proponent:
I agree with Delta7: had missions 13-15 been flown, the back-up crews on flights 10-12 would have been somewhat different.
The problem is that by the time these flights would have flown most of the qualified guys you mention had already transferred to Apollo crews and were training for those flights. For example, by rotation Ed White was to have commanded Gemini X but he was transferred to Apollo 1 and John Young got the command in his place. Scott, Cernan, Eisele, Cunningham, Schweickart had been or would soon be transferred to training on early Apollo crews and would have been unavailable.

I think that if these flights had flown we certainly would have seen repeat commanders. Probably Cooper would have gotten a third flight. Maybe Schirra too since Apollo 2/7 was never really supposed to fly the brass may have decided it made more sense to give him another Gemini command instead of assigning him to Apollo. That *could* free up Eisele and Cunningham too. Bean got his assignment to backup 8/9 after C.C. Williams died so he might have been available for a right seat assignment. Maybe Collins gets a command (losing his Apollo 4/9/8 seat which he lost to surgery anyway) and in this scenario while he would miss out on Apollo 11 by rotation he'd probably have ended up with a lunar command by Apollo 13 or 14. Maybe there's an outside chance Cernan gets recycled too for his lost opportunity from Gemini 9. But I don't really think the manpower existed (since the 1966 guys would still have been in basic training and probably focused on Apollo) to extend the program any more without hurting Apollo.

Then you have to think about who would man the backup crews. They might have had to consider a scenario whereby the Gemini 15 crew would back up both 13 and 14 and then the 13 crew backs up 15...or something like that just like they did at the end of Apollo.

Having said all that I think that leaves us with something like this:

  • Gemini 13: Cooper/Bean
  • Gemini 14: Schirra/Eisele
  • Gemini 15: Collins/Cunningham
I'm guessing that Eisele and Cunningham would end up taking the right seat on the last two flights if "Apollo 2" indeed never comes to assignment. Maybe there's an outside chance that Cernan or Anders gets one of those seats too.

carmelo
Member

Posts: 813
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 12-27-2013 06:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for carmelo   Click Here to Email carmelo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any chance for Rusty Schweickart?

moorouge
Member

Posts: 1619
From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009

posted 12-28-2013 02:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for moorouge   Click Here to Email moorouge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Broadening the topic slightly. Might there have been the need for these extra missions had Schirra/Stafford failed to survive the Gemini 6 launch pad incident and Armstrong/Scott failed to recover on Gemini 8?

Further, what would have been the implications for Apollo and the first lunar landing flight?

On edit - earlier was mentioned the possibility of reusing some Gemini capsules. I think that you'll find that it was cheaper to build new ones rather than strip down and rebuild used ones.

Lou Chinal
Member

Posts: 995
From: Staten Island, NY
Registered: Jun 2007

posted 12-29-2013 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lou Chinal   Click Here to Email Lou Chinal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just want to chime in. I think the big fear of a salt water landing would have made the possibility of planning to reuse Gemini remote.

Fra Mauro
Member

Posts: 1058
From: Maspeth, NY
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 12-29-2013 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fra Mauro   Click Here to Email Fra Mauro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you are asking what might hae happened if both the Gemini 6 and 8 crews perished? No moon landing by'69, maybe even the whole manned spaceflight deal in the U.S. gets shut down for several years.

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 1999-2012 collectSPACE.com All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement