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Author
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Topic: Apollo 8: Why was Borman commander?
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thecollector
Member Posts: 216
From: West TN, USA
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 09-10-2000 11:37 AM
  
At the time of Apollo 8, Jim Lovell was a much more "seasoned" astronaut, as some say, than Frank Borman. I have asked this question to several people but none have been able to answer it. Why, knowing this, was Borman commander and Lovell simply CMP? Perhaps it is just me, but if I were selecting a crew, I would let my more experienced crew lead. Any Insight? |
mark plas
Member Posts: 385
From: the Netherlands
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-10-2000 01:45 PM
Ryan, I think that Deke Slayton found Borman to be a born leader and put him above Lovell.Because Borman had more experience with the Apollo Spacecraft (he only flew in Gemini once so after this flight he went to work on Apollo and Lovell flew GT-12 before he moved to Apollo, Borman also led the investigation of the Apollo 1 fire) he was named commander of Apollo 8. You said simply CMP but this was an important assignment and on the early Apollo flights only veteran astronauts were CMP because you had to have flown a mission in order to be a CMP. mark |
Ed Krutulis
Member Posts: 145
From: Plainfield, IL USA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 09-11-2000 12:13 AM
Ryan,If I remember my reading so far, being the CMP was more desirable than LMP because of the responsibility and the next assignment would lead to Commander of a mission. Remember, the LMP did not fly the LM to the surface of the Moon, the Commander always did. Maybe after the luner surface mission was over and the LM was ascending to dock with the CSM, maybe then the Commander would let the LMP actually fly the LM then? Ed |
astronut
Member Posts: 969
From: South Fork, CO
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 09-11-2000 02:25 AM
Ed,
The only case reported publicly of a LMP flying the LM was Alan Bean while on the farside prior to docking. Dang, I wish I had thought to ask Mitchell & Duke if their commanders had given them the chance to fly the LM.------------------
q:-)
Wayne Edelman
(The Texican) |
WAWalsh
Member Posts: 809
From: Cortlandt Manor, NY
Registered: May 2000
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posted 09-11-2000 09:20 AM
Frank Borman, due to his involvement in the redesign of the command module, new the ship better than just about anyone and, for that and other reasons, properly received his command for the mission.
As to Lovell v. Borman, keep in mind that Jim Lovell was not an original member of the crew. Lovell replaced Mike Collins after Collins suffered a back injury. Accordingly, Borman had command of the mission well before he and Lovell were reunited. |
OPOS
Member Posts: 200
From: Inverness, FL
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 09-11-2000 09:59 AM
Amongst Bormans credentials with spacecraft, let us keep in mind that politics had a hand in this as well. As was pointed out earlier, Deke (And many others) felt Borman was a "true leader". He was thought highly of by politicians in Washington, in part because of his speech after the Apollo 1 fire. Borman was considered a "staright-up shooter", and most likely to engender confidence to the politicians and public alike on such a dangerous mission as 8. Hindsight being what it is, knowing how Lovell handled 13, I think I would have preferred him as CDR on 8, just my opinion. Borman was correct in later years saying that the moon landing had nothing to do with eploration, and everything to do with the Russians. To me he approached his missions that way. I tend to identify with those Astronauts who allowed a bit of wonder, awe, and joy to enter into their experience. These elements seem to be missing from Bormans perspective.Tom Edmonds |
Rick
Member Posts: 379
From: Yadkinville, NC
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 09-11-2000 01:42 PM
Why would Jim Lovell have been a better commander for Apollo 8 than Frank Borman? What happened on the flight that would cause anyone to question his leadership? Sure, he tossed his cookies, but that didn't hamper the overall goal of getting to the moon.The mission was a complete success. End of story. |
thecollector
Member Posts: 216
From: West TN, USA
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 09-11-2000 05:43 PM
I was not saying anything about Borman's performance that meant he SHOULDN'T, I was asking why he was named commander instead of Lovell. I thank you all for the wonderful insight, I think I get the picture now! |
Russ Still
Member Posts: 535
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-11-2000 09:05 PM
I have to agree with Mr. Walsh. Borman was chosen to command the mission before Lovell ever came on board. Thus, it doesn't appear that he was selected over Lovell. |
OPOS
Member Posts: 200
From: Inverness, FL
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 09-12-2000 08:25 AM
Please don't get me wrong, I am in no way denegrating Borman or the job he did. Your absolutely right, he did the job and I don't enter his "tossed cookies" into anything (plenty did that!). I was just saying from a hindsight perspective that Lovell would would have been MY personal choice because his ability to feel the wonder of the moment, along with his crisis skills. Had I been in the decision position at the time, I would have likely had Borman command the mission as well, considering all that had gone before it. I am just making a statement based on looking back, knowing what I know now.Tom Edmonds |
Joe Davies
Member Posts: 258
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 09-13-2000 08:56 AM
If we are looking back with hindsight, then an obvious observation is that Borman's Apollo command flight was a roaring success and Lovell's a tragic failure. Of course that wasn't Lovell's fault!! but like they say "better to be lucky than good" though Borman was also pretty darn good! Without any insult to Lovell's consummate skills and abilities, it has sometimes gone through my mind that with Borman's almost obsessional attention to detail just maybe the A13 flight might have made it if he had commanded it.Joe |
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