posted 11-13-2006 11:48 AM               

Why after Apollo 12 was there the change in policy to allow both the CMP and LMP roles to be filled by first timers?

Was it just down to the fact that there were really only a few flown astronauts still in the rotation at this point?

Steve

posted 11-13-2006 01:11 PM               

Here's the list of active flown astros that I can think of, as of the end of Apollo 12:

Al Shepard: in line to command Apollo 13/14 with the resolution of his inner ear problems...plus I can't see Al accepting anything other than a command position

Gordo Cooper: already had two commands behind him (if one includes his Mercury flight), was hoping for Apollo 13/14 command before Al was handed the mission

John Young: already had three missions behind him, including one command and one mission as a CMP...plus was in line to command Apollo 16

Jim McDivitt: already had two commands behind him, including an Apollo command...wouldn't have likely considered a CMP role...plus moved into NASA management around this time

Pete Conrad: already commanded Apollo 12 landing, then moved to Skylab in hopes of commanding another spaceflight

Tom Stafford: already had Apollo 10 command duties behind him, not likely interested in a CMP role

Jim Lovell: already in line to command landing mission on Apollo 14/13

Dave Scott: already in line to command Apollo 15, plus already had a CMP mission behind him

Gene Cernan: probably the best candidate of the active flown astros to fly in CMP role, but with the Apollo 10 LMP flight behind him, it seems unlikely he would have accepted anything other than the command on a landing mission. In fact, the story is that he turned down a sure thing as Apollo 16 LMP in order to hold out for command of Apollo 17...a brave move which paid off for him

Dick Gordon: already had the Apollo 12 CMP position, was due to command his own mission (probably Apollo 18)

Walt Cunningham: on the outs with Kraft after Apollo 7, destined to never fly again

Eisele: same as Cunningham, plus already had role of CMP for Apollo 7

Anders: essentially left right after Apollo 8, probably wouldn't have been interested in a CMP role anyway

Schweickart: likelihood of another flight low after Apollo 9, moved to Skylab program

Bean: having walked on the moon for Apollo 12, it's doubtful he would have wanted a CMP position...plus Pete talked him into going to Skylab so he could command his own mission

(Also, it's doubtful that any of the Apollo 11 astros had any desire to fly as CMP following their own mission.)

After looking over the list above, you can see most were either to never fly again or they were due to command their next mission if they were to fly again. So Deke had little option other than to use unflown astronauts in the CMP position. Besides, it wasn't even a hard rule from the start, with Eisele flying his first mission as CMP for Apollo 7...arguably the most critical mission for testing out the command module systems.

posted 11-13-2006 06:34 PM               

As previously stated, Slayton had few experienced astros for the CMP position. Additionally, with the cancellation of A18-20 there were fewer seats available and quite a few rookies eager to fly.

After several missions, the simulators were proven to accurately represent the actual performance of the spacecraft. With this confidence in the simulators, a "rookie" astronaut could be adequately trained to fly a mission in the CMP position.

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
Anders: essentially left right after Apollo 8, probably wouldn't have been interested in a CMP role anyway

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posted 11-13-2006 06:40 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by taneal1:
Actually, Anders was the backup CMP for A11. He gave his notice that he would be leaving NASA after A11. He stated he wasn't interested in flying as CMP, and there were not enough flights remaining for him to fly as CDR on a landing mission.

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You're quite right...in my haste I forgot about Anders' role on A11.

posted 11-15-2006 01:00 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
Walt Cunningham: on the outs with Kraft after Apollo 7, destined to never fly again
Eisele: same as Cunningham, plus already had role of CMP for Apollo 7

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Although it should be mentioned that, following Apollo 7, Eisele did rotate into the Apollo 10 backup CMP position. And Cunningham was informally assigned the backup commander position for the first Skylab flight.

I'm guessing too that the 'flown CMP rule' wouldn't apply to 7 and 8, the reasoning being you wanted an experienced astronaut in that position when the CSM was being flown solo (with LM detached). For 7 and 8, the commander was always aboard. For 9-12, they weren't.

posted 11-16-2006 07:03 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
Gordo Cooper: already had two commands behind him (if one includes his Mercury flight), was hoping for Apollo 13/14 command before Al was handed the mission[Edited by mjanovec (November 13, 2006).]

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Actually, since Gordo had served as backup Commander to Tom Stafford on Apollo 10, in Deke's rotation order he SHOULD have moved into the Commander's slot on Apollo 13, but since he seemed to fall out of favor with the powers that were, obviously this didn't happen...

Jim