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  Apollo 13 false statement

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Author Topic:   Apollo 13 false statement
Sy Liebergot
Member

Posts: 458
From: Pearland, Texas USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 10-06-2006 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sy Liebergot   Click Here to Email Sy Liebergot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I discovered this incredible statement on the Asronautix website:
From http://www.astronautix.com/flights/apollo13.htm
“When the Apollo 13 Command Module was examined after its return, it was found that the crew had tried to wire up a manual deployment switch for the recovery parachutes. However - they had in fact wired the switch to the parachute jettison control. If they had decided to use their jury-rigged manual override they would have in reality released the parachutes from the command module and plunged to their deaths in the ocean below.”

After checking with my memory, my retired NASA colleagues and Freddo Haise, I can assure you all that the statement is FALSE.

Sy Liebergot
"Apollo EECOM: Journey of A Lifetime" www.apolloeecom.com

ColinBurgess
Member

Posts: 1567
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-06-2006 05:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It might be an idea to ask Mark Gray where this erroneous information came from, and get him to delete it.

John Charles
Member

Posts: 316
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 10-06-2006 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for John Charles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ColinBurgess:
It might be an idea to ask Mark Gray where this erroneous information came from, and get him to delete it.

Don't you mean Mark Wade?

------------------
John Charles
Houston, Texas

John Charles
Member

Posts: 316
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 10-06-2006 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for John Charles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sy Liebergot:
Sy disputed this statement: ...“When the Apollo 13 Command Module was examined after its return, it was found that the crew had tried to wire up a manual deployment switch for the recovery parachutes. However - they had in fact wired the switch to the parachute jettison control...."

Sy,
I agree with you. Was it even possible to "re-wire" switches on the Apollo CM control panel? I thought they were sealed watertight and firmly secured in the panel.

------------------
John Charles
Houston, Texas

spacecraft films
Member

Posts: 802
From: Columbus, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 10-06-2006 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacecraft films   Click Here to Email spacecraft films     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I never dealt with this subject at all... this is the first I've ever heard mention of such a thing...

Perhaps since it is on Astronautix it is indeed Mark Wade to whom you are referring.

Best,
Mark Gray

Sy Liebergot
Member

Posts: 458
From: Pearland, Texas USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 10-06-2006 09:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sy Liebergot   Click Here to Email Sy Liebergot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
John,
We did have some procedures that required the removal of a panel to cut wires and reconnect ( wires were tagged in the CSM) to provide power to Logic busses and Pyro busses if some how we lost that power. We checked them out in the 2TV-1 vehicle. No switches--they were all conformal coated.
Sy

ColinBurgess
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Posts: 1567
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-07-2006 08:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry Mark - I should have said Mark Wade.

John K. Rochester
Member

Posts: 1273
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 10-07-2006 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for John K. Rochester   Click Here to Email John K. Rochester     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks again Sy..

40 years of reading Manned Spaceflight books, this is the first I've ever heard of those types of procedures. The things you learn on this site by those who LIVED it are absolutely mind-boggling!

Naraht
Member

Posts: 232
From: Oxford, UK
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 10-07-2006 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Naraht   Click Here to Email Naraht     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by spacecraft films:
I never dealt with this subject at all... this is the first I've ever heard mention of such a thing...

It used to be mentioned in the Wikipedia article on Apollo 13, although whether Wikipedia or Astronautix was the original source is debatable.

Happily, it was excised by an editor who was sure that this was a fabrication (and I concurred):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Apollo_13#Parachute_claim

Rodina
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posted 10-10-2006 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rodina   Click Here to Email Rodina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sy -

Just fire off a letter to Mark Wade -- astronautix is an amazing resource, but it relies on a lot of folks to make it right. I don't doubt he'd correct it.

ColinBurgess
Member

Posts: 1567
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-10-2006 12:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Rodina,

Unfortunately I'd have to disagree. Three years ago I contacted Mark Wade to tell him he had some grievous errors in his site's information on the deaths of Bassett and See in their T-38, which three years later have still not been amended. According to Astronautix, Bassett was flying one T-38 with See following in another when they crashed, with Bassett hitting the McDonnell building first. Totally wrong information and so far uncorrected, despite trying to do the right thing and even supplying the right facts to Mark. I thought Sy might have better luck with his complaint as he was personally involved in the Apollo 13 drama.

Colin

Sy Liebergot
Member

Posts: 458
From: Pearland, Texas USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 10-10-2006 08:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sy Liebergot   Click Here to Email Sy Liebergot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay Colin,
I'll give a try. I just sent Mark Wade the correction comments.
Sy

Stephen Clemmons
Member

Posts: 108
From: Wilmington, NC, New Hanover
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 10-10-2006 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stephen Clemmons   Click Here to Email Stephen Clemmons     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I read this post with interest because I believe it is one of those items that fall into the area of unsupported rumors.
I don't recall any electrical tools being included in the S/C tool kit that would allow such a modification in flight.
To remove the control panel, cut wires, make the changes in flight would require skills of a surgeon, and the full cooperation of ground controllers (Si's group)to detect the correct wires to cut, if they had the proper equipment.
One doesn't cut wires, particular in the command module, because they think it's the right one.
All the wires terminating at the panel switches were coated with a special fireproof covering and one would have to break the wires out of a wire bundle to asertain the correct wire.
It would require special splice connectors, crimping tools, voltmeter, a wire cutter and stripper
They didn't have a wiring schematic or diagram of the affected areas and even if they had, I don't believe there was time to make such a change.
For the astronauts to do it on their own was pretty far fetched.
It was hard enough for us to make wiring changes during ground checkout with all the special tools required.
Not only that, they were dealing with a "hot system" which would require a complete electrical system shutdown when dealing with the the master control panels.
Now, this was a redundent system where one switch could perform in series with another , and this is probably what they were talking about. By reconfiguring the switch positions, they might have been able to effect such a change.
This is similar to the rumor that a ground battery was connected to a "hot" buss in the service module in the hours before the Apollo I fire.
To have done this, it would have required the complete shutdown of all systems connected to this particular buss and that's difficult because all the systems were tied in, one way or another.
That's something one doesn't do when power is on the ship and to attempt a mod change in flight is pretty far fetched and extremely foolish, no matter the reason.
The best source to confirm this was the Astronauts, which included Fred Haise and Si Liebergot and his controllers
When one examines all the communications that are available to us between S/C 13 and Houston controllers, one doesn't find anything concerning this problem, and I'll leave it at that...
Thanks Si for bring it to our attention.

ejectr
Member

Posts: 1488
From: Brimfield, MA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 10-10-2006 11:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ejectr   Click Here to Email ejectr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.....and besides, the command module was cold, and dark. When would they have had the power to run lights to see what they were doing once they repowered the CM for landing.

Stephen Clemmons
Member

Posts: 108
From: Wilmington, NC, New Hanover
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 10-10-2006 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stephen Clemmons   Click Here to Email Stephen Clemmons     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Si,
I do remember the special push pull splice connectors on certain wires behind the main panel. Each was identified by system and function.
It would have been possible to have made the changes that were questioned.
But to say the wires were "cut and spliced" would indicate that the astronauts actually performed a difficult function even to the ground operations with the proper tools.
With the redundant systems, there were theoretical situations where even redundancy wouldn't work, requiring a wiring change.
This was all in the planning and I think those in the ground control section would know more about this and just what one could do in an emergency.
Of course, in an emergency situation, there would have to be communications between the Astronauts and controllers and if a wiring change was required, it would take both parties to set up the right configuration to make it work.
But as you said, none of these changes were made, according to your recollections and published data available to us and verified by Fred Haise, later verified by an inspection of the Space Craft.

Sy Liebergot
Member

Posts: 458
From: Pearland, Texas USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 10-10-2006 07:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sy Liebergot   Click Here to Email Sy Liebergot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You said it well, Steve.
Thanks,
Sy

Sy Liebergot
Member

Posts: 458
From: Pearland, Texas USA
Registered: May 2003

posted 10-11-2006 08:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sy Liebergot   Click Here to Email Sy Liebergot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Finally, this from Mark Wade:
Thanks for that. This story came from someone who claimed to be an insider. I of course will take your word as definitive, and delete it from the site.
--
Mark Wade
Encyclopedia Astronautica http://www.astronautix.com/
astronautix@gmail.com

ColinBurgess
Member

Posts: 1567
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 10-11-2006 08:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ColinBurgess   Click Here to Email ColinBurgess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well done, Sy. I've subsequently noticed that the horrendously wrong posting about the deaths of Bassett and See now directs you to a new page on which the correct information is given. But I might also try to contact Mark and ask him to delete the old, incorrect page, even if it is obsolete.

Colin

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