posted 08-17-2006 08:51 PM            

The only Gemini crew that wore a pressure suit capable of being totally removed inside the Gemini capsule during space flight was, of course, Lovell and Borman on Gemini 7, wearing the G5C light-weight soft-hood suit. Even then, it took each of them a long time to wriggle out of it.

Lovell and Aldrin on Gemini 12 each wore variants of the heavier EVA-compatible G4C. Such suits would have taken a considerable fraction of their 4-day flight duration to doff and then don again. Esp since Aldrin did almost daily EVAs.

posted 08-17-2006 10:07 PM            

I was thinking along the same lines as you - with not only EVAs, but major mission events such as dockings (where planners liked the Gemini astronauts to have the suits on just in case) happening in quick succession throughout the mission, there doesn't look like there was time. And the mission was short enough to hold for a bathroom break.

posted 08-18-2006 10:01 PM            

Lovell's book, "Lost Moon," mentions nothing about suit doffing during either Gemini 12 or Gemini 7. Aldrin's book, "Return to Earth," says nothing about suit doffing during Gemini 12. But Borman's book, "Countdown," discusses suit doffing on Gemini 7 at great length in Chapters 7 and 8.

posted 08-28-2006 08:58 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Duke Of URL:
Did the suits come off during Gemini 5?

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There is no evidence that any other Gemini crewmembers ever removed more than their helmets and gloves during space flight inside their Gemini spacecraft. (Never say never, but I will bet money on "never" in this case.)

Interestingly, the Gemini 5 crew of Cooper and Conrad lobbied to fly their 8-day mission without space suits at all, just wearing some sort of light-weight flight suits, possibly like those they wore while flying their T-38s. Cooper and backup co-pilot Elliot See supposedly tested just this scenario in the spacecraft during one of its altitude chamber runs. But, as the story goes, NASA and McDonnell (the spacecraft manufacturer) both felt that the spacecraft's environmental control system was not yet reliable enough to do without the space suits as a backup. (Conrad supposedly argued that, if they lost cabin pressure, even trying to get helmets and gloves back on would take too long!)

posted 08-29-2006 01:33 PM               

The entry zipper ran from the front of the crotch, up the back, to beneath the neck ring. An astronaut would have to roll over so that the other crew member could reach the zipper (I doubt even the unpressurized mobility was high enough for his to reach his own) and unzip it. Then he'd have to pull the neckring over his head and slide out the back of the suit.

posted 08-29-2006 05:58 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
I didn't realize they had to jam a big white pole into the backend of their suits in order to accomplish a BM.

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I recall in Aldrin's book that he did not take a BM on the Gemini flight and ended up on the USS Wasp popping out 'roids.

posted 08-30-2006 09:20 AM               

For the Gemini crews, I understand that they took at lot of (unofficial) precautions not to have that urge during the flight.

To give an example - when I was on Australian (RAN) Patrol Boats (Fremantle class), the heads wre something shocking (IMO). Because we normally did 'weekly running' (out Monday, back Friday) I used to avoid using the heads except for a pee. Maybe some people don't consider it "normal", but I could easily go 7-10 days without the need for a "BM".

(No 'you need to change your diet' replies, thank you).

posted 08-30-2006 08:24 PM               

About two years ago I did ask Gordon Cooper (face-to-face), about the flying suitless idea. He said he really wanted to do it, but NASA never really considered allowing it.

The Gemini 12 crew had the same suits as the Gemini 5 crew, except the EVA mods to Aldrin's suit. Also, considering the number of EVA's performed by Buzz and the initial rendezvous, they wouldn't have been able to leave the suits off for long. Also, those last flights had the timeline filled every minute. I doubt NASA would have allowed the time to doff and don the suits.

posted 12-22-2006 12:21 PM            

There I was, walking on my treadmill watching Gordon Cooper and Alan Shepard testing Capsule #20 and listening to Roy Neal interview Cooper on Spacecraft Films' Mercury disc set. Long story short: Cooper said he and Pete Conrad tried to get approval to fly their 8-day Gemini 5 mission in standard flying suits instead of the heavy Gemini space suits because they were not going to do EVA and they had developed enough reliability in their pressurization system, but said "NASA wouldn't approve it." Then Cooper said, "When we got into orbit, the first thing that happened was, our helmets and suits came off, and we were in our undies."

This is interesting because of Francis French's query up-thread, in which I was unequivocal in stating my belief that no Gemini astronauts ever doffed their suits in-flight except on Gemini 7. I still believe this, for all the reasons discussed up-thread, and would refer the interested listener to other instances in the interview in which Cooper misremembered details of his own experiences until Neal gently corrected him. In this case, Neal did not do so.

But at least this provides insight into how such rumors can get started and perpetuated. Note that Cooper was on the Gemini 12 backup crew, and perhaps made a similar comment in another interview, and perhaps a naive listener confused the missions.

posted 12-22-2006 08:03 PM            

Also, I checked the Gemini V mission report, and it goes into great depth about how the crew removed helmets and *gloves* after reaching orbit, and left them off until re-entry, and how they needed to use neck and wrist dams to stop the airflow through their suits because they were getting too cold. Even discusses how Conrad partially removed the torso of his suit to get access to the experimental thigh cuffs on his legs, and cut them out, for better comfort.

posted 12-22-2006 09:59 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
If Cooper says he took his off, I will believe him.

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posted 12-28-2006 06:22 PM               

Carmelo chooses to ignore Cooper's claims on the basis that Cooper claimed to have seen UFOs or had contact with aliens. Using similar logic, would one then assume everything Cooper ever said is a potential lie or exaggeration? Who among us has never lied or exaggerated a claim in our lifetimes? Does that automatically make every other thing we have said suspect?

Let's keep in mind Cooper and Conrad had 8 days in wrestle them off and put them back on. So even if they took 4 hours to remove instead of 2 hours, that's still plenty of time.

posted 12-29-2006 04:45 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
Let's keep in mind Cooper and Conrad had 8 days in wrestle them off and put them back on. So even if they took 4 hours to remove instead of 2 hours, that's still plenty of time.

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The mission proceeded without incident through the first two orbits and the ejection of the REP. About 36 minutes after beginning evaluation of the rendezvous guidance and navigation system, the crew noted that the pressure in the oxygen supply tank of the fuel cell system was falling. Pressure dropped from 850 pounds per square inch absolute (psia) at 26 minutes into the flight until it stabilized at 70 psia at 4 hours 22 minutes, and gradually increased through the remainder of the mission. The spacecraft was powered down and the REP exercise was abandoned. By the seventh revolution, experts on the ground had analyzed the problem and a powering-up procedure was started. During the remainder of the mission the flight plan was continuously scheduled in real time. Four rendezvous radar tests were conducted during the mission, the first in revolution 14 on the second day; the spacecraft rendezvous radar successfully tracked a transponder on the ground at Cape Kennedy. During the third day, a simulated Agena rendezvous was conducted at full electrical load. The simulation comprised four maneuvers - apogee adjust, phase adjust, plane change, and coelliptical maneuver - using the orbit attitude and maneuver system (OAMS). Main activities through the fourth day of the mission concerned operations and experiments. During the fifth day, OAMS operation became sluggish and thruster No. 7 inoperative. Thruster No. 8 went out the next day, and the rest of the system was gradually becoming more erratic. Limited experimental and operational activities continued through the remainder of the mission...

7.1.1.6 Crew housekeeping.- The extended length of the mission, together with the number of experiments requiring Pilot-operated equipment in the crew station, made it mandatory that the crew carefully manage housekeeping activities. The most critical tasks were anticipating stowage requirements and being prepared for a contingency reentry.

The flight crew maintained an orderly cabin by planning the requirements for equipment in advance for temporary stowage of each piece of equipment and for a location of the operational data required for each task.

posted 12-29-2006 07:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Spacewalker:
...In this conditions, while the GT-5 mission suffer all this problems, there was not time to do some "extra" experiment with the pressure suit.

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To believe otherwise is to believe that the crew violated flight rules, either so deftly that no-one on the ground noticed, or that flight surgeons, environment control specialists, and support engineers in MCC also kept quiet. Then the mission report would have had to be falsified.

Then, having demonstrated that it was possible, they quietly aquiesced while an expensive crash program developed the lightweight, removeable G5C suits for Gemini 7, wholly unnecessary if the G4C suits could be doffed.

Sorry, but it is easier to believe that the crew suffered for 8 days in their suits, as they knew they would before they ever launched, than that such a conspiracy of silence was in place since 1965.

posted 01-05-2007 07:47 AM               

First, none of the debrief material, internal or external, for GT-5 says anything at all about the suits coming off. In fact, it's quite the contrary. The crew complained quite a bit before hand about having to wear the suits and actually formally lobbied to skip the suits entirely for that mission.

A memo written by Frank Borman (over Gilruth's sig) after the flight says, "The degradation of crew performance created by wearing a pressure suit was recognized prior to the Gemini V flight, and a crew request was received to delete the pressure suit entirely from that mission."

Related documentation says that Crew Systems Division (CSD) didn't have time to evaluate the efficacy of the ECS in the absence of a suit for Gemini 5, but they had done it in partial-doff (gloves and helmet) situation and approved that mode of ops.

Beyond that, CSD and MSC leadership appeared VERY uncomfortable with the thought of no suits at any time for any flight for safety reasons, though some engineers argued that they felt comfortable (pun intended) with the reliability of the capsule's ECS and pressure integrity to skip the suits if needed.

The post-flight reports and internal memos for CSD mention nothing at all about the suits having come off, authorized or not. On the contrary, the miserable experience of Cooper and Conrad led to the serious consideration of the G5C for GT-8. That suit was under development only since June '65, just a month before GT-5. Management was still debating whether or not GT-8 could use it, use the G4C, or even go shirtsleeves up until the end of 1965.

The GT-5 experience seemed to be the driving force at the time.