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Author
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Topic: Apollo Block 1 and Gemini space suits
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carmelo
Member Posts: 1051
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 09-01-2004 06:52 PM
   
The Apollo Block I spacesuit was substantially a intravehicular Gemini suit with little modifications, but exactly which modifications? Why the flag was moved on the right shoulder, and why a so strange design for the helmet? |
heng44
Member Posts: 3413
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 09-02-2004 01:17 AM
I have a theory about that changing of the flag: when it is on the right shoulder you can only see the red bars when the astronaut is viewed from the front. When it is on the left shoulder you can also see the blue part with the white stars, which makes a more "attractive" picture. It may be as simple as that. |
carmelo
Member Posts: 1051
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 03-02-2006 09:17 AM
In yours opinion the size of Gemini capsule was compatible with Apollo Block 1 type helmet? |
heng44
Member Posts: 3413
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 03-02-2006 01:28 PM
I don't understand the question...Why would the Apollo helmet be compatible with the Gemini capsule? |
katabatic
Member Posts: 72
From: Oak Hill, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 03-02-2006 02:00 PM
My understanding (and I'm often wrong on these things) is that the Apollo Block 1 helmets were just upgraded Gemini helmets with a plastic faceplate guard (the thing on top). I guess the issues would be whether the added height of the guard was a problem (as I recall, clearance was very tight around the Gemini hatch) and the aero effects of the guard during an ejection. But that's total speculation... |
carmelo
Member Posts: 1051
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 03-02-2006 02:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by heng44:
Why would the Apollo helmet be compatible with the Gemini capsule?
Because the Apollo Block 1 suit and Gemini G3C suit were basically the same thing. The Apollo Block 1 helmet had a fiberglass outer shell for impact protection. Why this helmet has not been used in the late Gemini missions too? Was not compatible with Gemini? |
John Charles
Member Posts: 342
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 03-02-2006 07:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by carmelo:
Because the Apollo 1 suit and Gemini G3C suit were basically the same thing.
I observed (and photographed) just such a helmet, with fiberglass visor guard, in a display case in the spacesuit development building at Johnson Space Center not too many years ago. It was labelled "Gemini Intravehicular Helmet" and I think underneath that, it said "prototype." This tells me that (1) either the latter-day successors of the Gemini and Apollo suit developers and maintainers have got it wrong, or (2) the original Gemini helmets from the David Clark Co. had the same fiberglass shield that we saw later only on the suits developed by David Clark for the Block I Apollo flights. Why the difference? Well, maybe this was one of the adjustments forced upon NASA when a spacecraft largely tailored to someone of the dimensions of Gus Grissom was also required to accommodate Tom Stafford and other larger astronauts. To get the required head clearance for the taller astronauts, one change might have been to reduce their sitting height by the width of the shield. In Apollo, when there was more headroom and more freedom of movement inside the capsule, maybe it was decided to incorporate the shield to protect the visor. I have not seen this documented anywhere — just my inference from that helmet at JSC. |
carmelo
Member Posts: 1051
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 01-30-2008 09:49 AM
Which is the most old photo known of one Apollo Block 1 suit, and what date, late 1965? Early 1966? |
kr4mula
Member Posts: 642
From: Cinci, OH
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 01-30-2008 11:14 AM
I would be surprised if a photo didn't appear well before the time you mentioned, unless you mean specifically a production article and not one of the prototypes. ASPO decided in May '64 to use modified Gemini suits for Block I and the David Clark Co. got the formal contract later that year. The first reference I have to one being used is from Feb. 25, 1965, in which the Block I suit was tested in crew station mockups for don/doff timing. In July, the suit was tested at Wright-Patterson on the vomit comet. I don't know for sure which number/version of the suit this was, but it was definitely considered by NASA as a Block I and not just a Gemini put to use on Apollo. I'm sure someone took pictures of these two activities (the suit guys were good at that sort of documentation), but I don't have any copies. |
carmelo
Member Posts: 1051
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 01-30-2008 12:24 PM
The helmet of Block I suit was with the overshell in 1964-65? |
kr4mula
Member Posts: 642
From: Cinci, OH
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 01-31-2008 12:50 PM
I don't think the overshell was in 1964-65 — I was just responding to your general question about when Block I photos first appeared. From the documents I've read, the overshell seems to be in response to the Gemini 3 event where Gus hit his. But I don't really have anything detailing helmet development for Block I, other than mentions of compatibility with the CM couch. Visibility was apparently an issue with the Gemini helmet, as was fit with the couch itself. Of course, all the Apollo helmets had visibility problems, which was one of the factors leading to the adoption of the bubble helmet. |
carmelo
Member Posts: 1051
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 01-28-2016 03:30 PM
Why the spacesuits of Apollo 1 crew (and backup crew) had a shiny appearance that I never have noticed in the white Gemini suits? Of which fabric was the white overgarment?More, the suits seems more "skinny" (or less bulky) of a Gemini commander suit (I don't talk about EVA suits of pilots). Is this only a impression? |
Headshot
Member Posts: 891
From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 01-28-2016 05:26 PM
As an aside, there was a proposal for Gemini 12 to rendezvous with what would be known as Apollo 1. The possibility of switching crew members via EVA was also raised. It was a short 1966 newspaper article with little detail. |
Panther494
Member Posts: 425
From: London UK
Registered: Jan 2013
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posted 01-28-2016 05:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by carmelo:
Why the flag was moved on the right shoulder
I believe it's due to the flag appearing to be going backwards/retreating when on the right. The blue star field should always be facing forward/travelling forward. |
PeterO
Member Posts: 402
From: North Carolina
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 01-28-2016 06:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by carmelo:
Why the spacesuits of Apollo 1 crew (and backup crew) had a shiny appearance that I never have noticed in the white Gemini suits?
Dave Scott's Gemini 8 EVA suit, on display at KSC, does have a shiny appearance to the fabric. That was the first time I'd seen an actual suit in person, and the shininess surprised me. |
Lou Chinal
Member Posts: 1332
From: Staten Island, NY
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 01-29-2016 08:01 AM
Yes, I also recall reading about a Gemini 12/Apollo 1 crew swap. But it quickly became obvious they would not launch together. |
Paolo P
New Member Posts: 8
From: Edinburgh UK
Registered: Jul 2013
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posted 01-29-2016 12:04 PM
Was a crew swap even possible given the design of the Block I hatch? |
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