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Author
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Topic: Value of astronaut-owned STS-1 tile lucite
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Dave_Johnson
Member Posts: 116
From:
Registered: Feb 2014
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posted 08-25-2020 08:14 AM
   
I recently acquired an STS-1 flown tile lucite, which had been previously presented to Shannon Lucid.Given that it was previously owned by Shannon, is $550 a reasonable price for it? I've seen others go anywhere from $200 (in 2010), to over $900 more recently (ex-Alan Bean, signed). Thanks!  |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4612
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-25-2020 10:13 AM
What is the supporting provenance that this was actually presented to her? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 44534
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-25-2020 10:36 AM
If I recall correctly, this piece was originally sold by one of Shannon Lucid's family members along with other items from her collection. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4612
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-25-2020 10:55 AM
Cool. Hopefully there is a tangible artifact documenting her ownership so the claim is not subsequently contested if the lucite is resold/auctioned. Assuming that exists, the $550 is not unreasonable given comps from recent Lucid sold items. |
mmcmurrey
Member Posts: 121
From: Austin, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2012
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posted 08-25-2020 11:32 AM
There were many of these lucites given out to NASA employees. Each one numbered and printed names. Who do you think received Shannon Lucid's presentation? |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4612
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-25-2020 12:52 PM
Just having a name printed on a presentation doesn't signify actual delivery to the intended recipient.Do we think these were encapsulated in house or did NASA contract out for their production after providing the tile samples to the vendor? |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 993
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 08-25-2020 04:15 PM
That is why John Young signed his on the back "From my personal collection." Lucites can easily be reproduced. But this one was sold by Lunar Legacies, along with a large number of her items, so it is from Shannon Lucid. Any thoughts on the value of Young's lucite?  |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4612
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-25-2020 05:00 PM
$1500 to $2K. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 44534
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-25-2020 06:11 PM
To each their own, but to me, Young's writing — even on the back — detracts from the value of the lucite. Of course, beggars can't be choosers, too.And yes, it is easy (relatively, speaking) to reproduce a lucite display, but to do so such that it matches the color, style, placement and fine details of the original, takes time, skill and expense. |
Dave_Johnson
Member Posts: 116
From:
Registered: Feb 2014
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posted 08-25-2020 09:48 PM
Thanks for the responses. The lucite did not have any accompanying documentation as part of the sale, unfortunately. I have sent an inquiry to the seller to see if there was any when he acquired it.Chuckster01, thanks for the information regarding this lucite having been sold by Donnis previously - I found the matching auction listing on Auctionzip.com. I'd be interested in hearing any other comments regarding it's history, if available.
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Chuckster01
Member Posts: 993
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 08-27-2020 04:57 AM
Robert, I have been a fan of having the astronauts sign the items I buy from then for many years, I prefer one of three inscriptions. - From my personal collection.
- Used in training for (whatever it was)
- Flown on
With the astronaut own hand the inscriptions make the provenance without any additional paper work.From my Apollo 1 boots to flight suits to covers and awards, even if I buy the item at auction, I get them all signed if the astronaut is alive and accessible. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2214
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 08-27-2020 07:19 AM
I know we have seen a number of lucite displays for sale that were of questionable provenance: lucites created with bits of purportedly flown material (e.g. heat shield), but I don't think these attempts were made to make the lucite look like an actual flown lucite style. They were just chunks of material in lucite with some kind of "flown on ____ mission" statement.Have we seen any attempts yet to recreate known flown lucite styles, such as the STS-1 lucites? Even if no, that does not mean it couldn't happen. But I agree with Robert, it would take a lot of skill and expense to recreate a lucite that usually sells in the $300 to $350 range unless it is associated with a known name from the program. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3075
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 08-27-2020 07:49 AM
Just saw this topic, and yes, it would be difficult to reproduce a company or NASA acrylic in every detail from the original version. But in order to even reproduce or copy another lucite you would still have to have the designated space artifact as well to use in the unapproved version display. How would those become available, especially if the artifacts are authentic? In this day and age though, however, I do realize that printing and computer graphics techniques can be remarkable with just about anything possible in an area like this. But the cost, labor, and skill required for a good acrylic production, I don't think, would justify a project like this to profit that much in a limited arena such as space memorabilia. There are some acrylic displays that I would not trust, such as those that had been produced with various heat shield particles and Kapton swatches that I have seen on public auction sales and other commercial outlets. Some of those may resemble prior NASA and aerospace company productions of those spaceflight eras, however, many were mass produced by modern-day commercial and retail sources that really have no direct tie nor association with the space agencies of any kind. The type of acrylic in reference to here is indeed, in my opinion, 100% genuine in every aspect. There are at least three types of STS-1/Columbia lucites that were produced by NASA and the shuttle orbiter builder, Rockwell International. In all the cases that I know of, each had an issued serial number and some did originate from personal astronaut collections, like John Young and Shannon Lucid. Most of the STS-1 lucites by NASA, housed in a small white carrier box, did contain a separate and small printed information release at the bottom of the lucite presentation box. But many of the accompany white box holders of the acrylics were not kept, thrown out, and in several cases the inside printed documentation card or sheet had been discarded by mistake. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4612
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-27-2020 08:03 AM
Given access to a tile (either flown or not), what aspect of the STS lucite (as an example) would be technically difficult for a motivated individual to replicate? The printed cardstock has three simple colors, digital modification/copying is not "rocket science" and encapsulation isn't a proprietary process. |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 993
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 08-27-2020 02:27 PM
I agree with Scott in the fact that the reproduction process would not be prohibitive.When you are dealing with a well known name that could easily double, triple or more the average price of any item. I think scam artists can and often time do forge items. In my own opinion, having the astronaut sign the item will never detract from the value. Some people prefer photographs unsigned and not inscribed. I prefer the signed photographs and have dozens in my collection. The long and short is to each their own but trust me no one questions my STS-1 Lucite and as this thread started, can we say the same for Shannon Lucid's? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 44534
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-27-2020 02:43 PM
These STS-1 tile lucite presentations are well-documented as originating from NASA. Regardless if it was ever presented or not, an example made out to an astronaut or other known NASA figure will command a premium. In this case, I don't think the value differs much between whether or not it was ever owned by the intended recipient. That said, I am unaware of any examples of STS-1 tile lucites that were left over or never presented. As for forgeries; I didn't say it was impossible, but the time, skill, cost and effort needed to create any lucite, let alone a replica, is a greater deterrent than forging an autograph or creating a knock off patch, for example (in the case of the latter, the cost can be mitigated by producing a quantity). quote:
Originally posted by Chuckster01:
The long and short is to each their own...
Yes, absolutely, but also keep in mind that "their own" is temporary. We are only the current custodian of these items. If they survive to see future generations, preferences can and may change. The only way to be timeless is to preserve the item in the original condition that it was created. |
lunarlegacies
Member Posts: 124
From: Merritt Island, FL
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 08-28-2020 12:06 PM
Dave Johnson contacted me about Lucid's STS-1 lucite I sold for her. No documentation with it, but it was in her possession no doubt. I went physically to her house in Houston, found it in one of her many boxes of space stuff, and then sold it in my February 2019 auction. She's a great lady to meet for sure. Just saw her again less than a week ago to get more for my upcoming Sept. auction, so check it out if you wish. |
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