Posts: 933
From: Belgium
Registered: Jul 2003

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From: England
Registered: Feb 2001

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From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010

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From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 08-17-2019 09:22 AM               

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The "flag test" was not absolute, nor was it meant to be; there are more than a few authentic examples of Armstrong's writing crossing over the flag. The test identified a specific forger's style that consistently crossed the flag.

As Fred noted, the shape of the "T" in the inscription is off, as are the other letters, and then look at the overall size and placement of the writing.

Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

Posts: 933
From: Belgium
Registered: Jul 2003

Posts: 1397
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 08-18-2019 06:49 AM               

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This one is disturbing because of all the peripheral items included in the sale.

Given the other items the seller has for sale, there is a good chance that the seller does not know the Armstrong signature on the litho is a really bad fake. Whomever created it specifically created it to go with a legitimate Apollo Achievement Award, so the fake signature is fake inscribed to the recipient of the award. Some unsuspecting buyer may think the signature is good in large part because of the other items included in the sale with it.

Maybe the item is for sale by the seller on consignment from someone who wanted a "legitimate" seller to market it?

Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 08-18-2019 11:56 AM               

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My hot take of the day:

I don't think the signature is bad.

Clearly the dedication is highly atypical. It may have been added by another hand, but I'd reserve final judgement for that with an in-hand review or much better photo.

This is with the disclaimer that this is a relatively small photo that is not crisp and taken at an angle. Assessments can change when presented with better photos.

Posts: 428
From: San Antonio TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 08-18-2019 11:13 PM               

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I just looked at a blown-up image of the photo, and it looks to my untrained eye, that the "Best Wishes" was written OVER Neil's signature. It just appears that the W in "Wishes" crosses over the top of the A in "Armstrong". I compared the points where the W and A cross, against the points where the lines cross in Neil's actual signature and paraph.

If I am seeing it correctly, that could support Steve Z's thought that the signature itself might be good, but that the inscription was added later by the recipient, or someone else.

Posts: 1506
From: Beverly Hills, Calif.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-19-2019 10:35 PM               

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This has to be one of the stranger Armstrong signed items I've ever come across, but I agree with Steve. I think the signature (alone) is authentic (if not it would be hands down the best fake I've ever seen). The piece is, of course, thrown off by the inscription, which is clearly not in Armstrong's hand. There could be any number of things to account for that but, in my opinion, it makes the whole piece a somewhat "iffy" investment.

By the way, the seller's other Armstrong offering appears to be authentic in every way, for what it's worth.

Posts: 109
From: Bogangar NSW Australia
Registered: May 2018

Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 08-20-2019 06:20 AM               

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Perhaps it was signed at an event using the recipient’s pen, which the recipient took back after Neil signed. Later, to "make it more personal" they added their own name. This theory makes the most sense to me.

However, what it puzzling is how the dedication does bear some resemblance to Armstrong's writing. Typically when you see recipient added dedications, they look nothing like the signer's writing.

Posts: 1506
From: Beverly Hills, Calif.
Registered: Nov 2000

Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 08-20-2019 10:20 PM               

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Are there really other examples of authentic autographs with forged inscriptions?

I've never seen one before, not even a secretarial inscription. The only thing I have seen that is even close would be, for example, a Mercury 7 signed photo with "To Billy from the Mercury astronauts" in a secretarial hand.

Posts: 1397
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

Posts: 13
From: Australia
Registered: Sep 2015

posted 08-21-2019 02:56 AM               

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I recall seeing something similar a year or two ago, an apparently genuine Armstrong signature with an inscription in a different hand.

While an uninscribed signature may be worth more to collectors, for "street cred" I would rather have one personalised to me. I can understand how someone may have done that themselves.

The red pen used on this one is unusual.

Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

Posts: 109
From: Bogangar NSW Australia
Registered: May 2018