Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

Websites
related space history websites

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Opinions & Advice
  372635649025: Pond's Silver Snoopy Award

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   372635649025: Pond's Silver Snoopy Award
capoetc
Member

Posts: 2134
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 03-31-2019 05:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just thought I would post a caution here... the paperwork for Charles L. Pond's Silver Snoopy award was just sold on eBay (Item #372635649025, sold for $163.50 plus shipping).

This lot may have been purchased by someone who has a Silver Snoopy of that era with no paperwork.

Or it may have been purchased by someone who will hook the paperwork up with an orphaned Silver Snoopy and sell the package as a complete Silver Snoopy award (with the obvious boost in price for the intact set).

Interestingly, Charles L. Pond's actual Silver Snoopy was apparently sold without the paperwork at some point in the past.

Caveat Emptor.

spaced out
Member

Posts: 3091
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 04-01-2019 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also of note, a Silver Snoopy pin and award certificate made out to Laurence J Bement was apparently recently sold on eBay for a staggering $2,500.

However the certificate was originally sold on eBay in 2014 for $51 and in the original listing the pin was noted as having been lost.

The award letter for the same Silver Snoopy was then sold in 2015 for a further $225, again with no pin. This time it was noted that the letter had just been found.

Now it is possible that the pin was also found at a later date and sold to the buyer of the award certificate at some stage and I missed it, or the sale was private, but there's definitely reason to question the pairing just sold on eBay.

capoetc
Member

Posts: 2134
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 04-02-2019 09:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it is clear that, because Silver Snoopy awards are a hot item and they draw a lot of bids when they come up for sale, we will see more and more Silver Snoopy's coming up for sale with "Manufactured Provenance".

"Manufactured Provenance" happens when someone takes an orphaned Silver Snoopy pin, pairs it with an orphaned Silver Snoopy award package, and ... Voila! A complete Silver Snoopy award package that really isn't.

To address this, I think collectors should use extreme caution when considering purchase of a Silver Snoopy award:

  1. Acknowledge that there are likely many more unflown Silver Snoopy pins from all eras than there are flown Silver Snoopy pins.

  2. There is no way to tell if a Silver Snoopy was flown absent rock solid provenance and a complete chain of custody. Even the few I have seen with etched mission information on the back have etching that could easily be replicated by an unscrupulous seller.

  3. The award should only be considered flown if there is a rock solid chain of custody and rock solid provenance.
I would welcome other points to add to this thread — the bottom line is, the prices recently seen on Silver Snoopy pins sold with a complete award package would seem to reflect a premium based upon a belief that shuttle era Snoopy pins were all flown.

There are without a doubt Silver Snoopy pins out there that were not flown from all eras. Pins from the shuttle era that were stored in a closet and not presented have made it into the marketplace now. All of the pins from the Apollo era except the ones flown in an astronaut's PPK were not flown.

One needs to be exceedingly cautious when buying a Silver Snoopy award package to avoid the "Manufactured Provenance" problem.

Rick Mulheirn
Member

Posts: 4042
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-02-2019 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Investigative work by Larry McGlynn suggests that very few Apollo era Snoopy Pins were actually flown and has said as much previously on collectSPACE. Larry's best estimate I believe is 90 to 110 in total: 30 of which were flown by Fred Haise on Apollo 13.

Has anybody been keeping tabs on the number of shuttle era Snoopy Pins and can they estimate with some degree of accuracy how many made it in to space?

spaced out
Member

Posts: 3091
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 04-03-2019 01:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From the OFKs I've seen the average is around 150 per flight, with a low of 20 and a high of 932. Overall total for the Shuttle program is probably around 20,000.

Rick Mulheirn
Member

Posts: 4042
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-03-2019 04:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Chris! I can't help but notice a disparity in the value of the respective flown Snoopy pins. Last time I noticed an Apollo era flown Snoopy (originally from Freddo if memory serves me right) it went for around $3000. Yet low Earth orbit "ten a penny" shuttle era pins fetch $2000 to $3000 because they come with a bunch of paperwork.

I'd expect the authenticated Apollo pins with good provenance to be worth considerably more.

thisismills
Member

Posts: 194
From: Michigan
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 04-03-2019 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for thisismills   Click Here to Email thisismills     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I recently added 11 more shuttle OFKs to my website from a completed FOIA request. I tallied up the Snoopy pins carried on these missions.

capoetc
Member

Posts: 2134
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 04-03-2019 10:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for capoetc   Click Here to Email capoetc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Keep in mind, just because it is a shuttle-era pin does not necessarily mean it was flown.

There are stories of someone coming in the office and handing out Snoopy pins, and I am certain there were unflown pins sitting in the closet that went "missing."

Therefore, I think it is imperative that you verify the chain of custody of the pin and paperwork in writing ... if you cannot get a complete chain of custody, then you must assume there is a possibility the pin was not flown.

Larry McGlynn
Member

Posts: 1221
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 04-03-2019 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
John, you are so right. Here is a Snoopy pin that sold in 2014. The auction house was trying to prove that this particular pin was flown on Apollo 11. There is no record of any Snoopy pins flying on Apollo 11.

The paperwork is nice, but no where does Mike Collins indicate the pin was flown. He is just thanks the winner for his work.

quote:
Originally posted by Rick Mulheirn:
I'd expect the authenticated Apollo pins with good provenance to be worth considerably more.
Apollo flown Snoopy pins are now selling between $5,000 and $10,000 depending on the mission.

Rick Mulheirn
Member

Posts: 4042
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-03-2019 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the update Larry.

streetsnake
Member

Posts: 176
From: Ohio
Registered: Oct 2012

posted 04-05-2019 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for streetsnake   Click Here to Email streetsnake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is another Silver Snoopy except this one the seller doesn't even try to say it is flown... but they still want 2K? Seems a smidge high.

desey9
Member

Posts: 15
From:
Registered: Sep 2017

posted 04-05-2019 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for desey9   Click Here to Email desey9     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From that seller:
My grandfather said his boss came through the office and just handed one out to ever employee that was there that day, he was not given any kind of letter or paper work with it.
If that isn't the most compelling, pass-down-through-the-generations story, I don't know what is.

MarcJBeard
New Member

Posts: 2
From: Hayes, Middlesex, UK
Registered: Apr 2019

posted 05-07-2019 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MarcJBeard   Click Here to Email MarcJBeard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm the buyer of the Silver Snoopy Award paperwork mentioned in this thread.

I want to document my intention to pair this paperwork and an Apollo era Snoopy pin for future generations in order not to deceive or confuse anyone. I have attached pictures of the pin and paperwork to this thread. If you would like any further information or photos please get in touch.

After reading the thread and knowing the original pin was sold previous, I'd really like to reunite the pin and paperwork, as it's my intention to frame everything together and if I can add the original pin at a later date this would be fantastic.

MarcJBeard
New Member

Posts: 2
From: Hayes, Middlesex, UK
Registered: Apr 2019

posted 05-07-2019 09:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MarcJBeard   Click Here to Email MarcJBeard     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 2019 collectSPACE.com All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement