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Author
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Topic: Separating NASA photos stuck together
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Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 02-12-2019 05:17 PM
   
I am not sure if the topic has been broached before but I have several Apollo 9 color prints that are stuck together. Very well I might add. I know pulling them apart will only destroy them. I looked on the internet and it said to soak in cold water and this separated the image from the paper destroying both of the images I tried this on (I did use distilled water and one drop of Dawn dish washing detergent). These are A KODAK PAPER photos and red numbered so I want to do anything possible to save them but as they are garbage in there current state I am willing to try most any procedure a few photos at a time to see if anything work. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. |
Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 968
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 02-12-2019 06:24 PM
As a photographer for almost 40 years have to say that water, even a little moisture and humidity, is considered one of our biggest enemies. Not good for the camera equipment. Not good for the film back in the olden days. And definitely not good for developed paper prints. Hate to be the bringer of bad news but those nice photos which have adhered to each other cannot be saved. Good luck with your hunt for a solution and if you do find a miracle cure please let us know.  |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 02-12-2019 07:27 PM
Not what I wanted to hear if if it is true. But if you Google separating photographs many sites say these were wet process photos and water would not hurt them. Not true, water hurts. I will still try anything if someone has a suggestion. I cannot bring myself to trash them without trying something. Destruction is better then the trash bin. Have a few in the freezer, LOL, this one I have no faith in. |
CJ
Member Posts: 38
From: Cherry Hill, NJ
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 02-12-2019 08:04 PM
Are the photos fiber based or plastic coated? How long did you soak them? |
Grounded!
Member Posts: 367
From: Bennington, Vermont, USA
Registered: Feb 2011
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posted 02-12-2019 10:13 PM
Maybe a trial with steam? You could experiment with a small area first. |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 02-13-2019 05:08 AM
The photographs are late 1960s red numbered NASA photos so I do not believe they are plastic coated. I soaked the first two in room temperature distilled water for about 45 minutes, trying to separate them in about 15 minute intervals. First two times they where still stuck together and the third time they had come apart (the very thin image had separated from the paper). |
jimsz
Member Posts: 616
From:
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 02-13-2019 06:21 AM
Call some art galleries and see if there is an art restoration expert in your area. Something like this is their area of expertise.Also, if you live in an area with a good historical society or museum, they may be able to help. The University of Buffalo has one of the few art restoration schools in the country. I have used them in the past for artwork. It may be worth a phone call to simply ask them for ideas. |
CJ
Member Posts: 38
From: Cherry Hill, NJ
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 02-13-2019 10:05 PM
It seems the amount of time you are soaking the prints is to long. The gelatin emulsion is dissolving. As a last resort try soaking for a short period of time to get the paper wet. Then put the edge of the two prints under running water (room temp) from a faucet. Hopefully the force of the water will aid in separation. Gently try pulling apart slowly. I would caution you not to try to separate prints until you have the means to gloss the print in order to save them (if you think you can separate them). If the print is fiber based you will need a Ferrotype Plate to put the gloss finish back, and a squeegee to remove excess water (from the back of the print only), a hair dryer or clothes iron. Search for a plate on ebay in cameras and photo. I would buy one with instructions, and new if possible. You could also buy a Model F-15C Flipper Electric Print Dryer (currently one on ebay) which works very well. You will want to make sure the cotton cover is clean before using. Good luck. |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 02-14-2019 05:13 AM
Thank you so much for the input. I have made three attempts using water. Warm water only, cold water only and soaking in room temperature and running water under cold combinations and the prints do not seem to separate much. It seems that any soaking over about 30 minutes destroys the photographs but a short soaking has little to no effect. (They do not separate much if any.) The freezer idea was a bust also, although it had no ill effects there was no gain either. I have a good friend who is a jeweler and on his recommendation I am going to try using his ultrasonic cleaner used to clean clock parts with water. He thinks and this does sound reasonable that the 40,000 vibrations will work the photos apart before there is time for the image to separate. If for no other purpose I will have a definitive answer on every practice listed on the internet as well as others, so in the future I will know if there is anyway to save these prints. In Florida, we have such high humidity and many of these photographs have been left in attics, garages and sheds. History is being lost so to me it is worth the effort. More updates to come. |
oly
Member Posts: 905
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 02-14-2019 05:27 AM
I pass this caution regarding the use of an ultrasonic cleaner. I have personally seen paper fuel filter elements disintegrate in an ultrasonic cleaner, the high frequency vibrations break up the paper fibers. It may be prudent to use an unwanted sample before attempting the use on any item you may be fond of. |
Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 968
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 10-25-2019 10:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Chuckster01:
If for no other purpose I will have a definitive answer on every practice listed on the internet as well as others, so in the future I will know if there is anyway to save these prints.
Perhaps it's time to revisit this topic and come to a definitive albeit sad conclusion. As originally stated back in February, those water damaged photographic prints cannot be salvaged. Convinced? |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 10-25-2019 04:35 PM
I am very sad to make the following report on salvaging the A Kodak Paper red serial numbered photographs that where stuck together, 43 in all. I tried every solution I could imagine. From water (hot, cold, soapy and saline), vinegar, rubbing alcohol, bleach and even a color film fixer donated to me by a friend. Along with various soaking times and wetting methods ranging from brush application, short and long soakings and even using an ultrasonic cleaner. I tried heating, freezing, and even microwaving in an effort to try and salvage just one photo. In the long run all of the rare and valuable red numbered photographs I had have all ended up in the trash and not one single images was saved. I invested a lot of my time and a fair amount of money with the final conclusion: If it will not pull apart dry, throw it away! |
CJ
Member Posts: 38
From: Cherry Hill, NJ
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 10-25-2019 08:47 PM
Sorry to hear you were not successful. In a previous life, I owned a photo lab. The suggestions offered here worked many times on customer photos. I can only guess that the gelatin turned to glue. |
Sayheypa
New Member Posts: 9
From: Sherman Oaks, California
Registered: May 2019
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posted 10-28-2019 10:08 PM
I had a similar situation recently and I went to a conservator and for $60 a pic, he was able to separate them. I recommend this if you are ever in the situation again. These photos were as stuck together as possible and he was able to do it. They were also NASA red numbered, including many classic images, and he was able to save them. |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 10-29-2019 04:36 AM
Would you mind sharing his contact information as I was not able to find anyone in central Florida to assist in this. |
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