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Author
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Topic: 123013383590: Apollo 11 signed letter
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davidcwagner
Member Posts: 799
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-22-2018 05:44 PM
   
Are these Apollo 11 autographs secretarial? They do not match autopen examples. |
ColinBurgess
Member Posts: 2031
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 03-22-2018 06:36 PM
While I'm not 100% sure (about 99%), I think someone got themselves an incredible bargain at just $14. |
Mike Dixon
Member Posts: 1397
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003
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posted 03-22-2018 06:56 PM
Unbelievable... |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-22-2018 07:04 PM
While not secretarial nor autopen, I do have some concerns about it. For instance, why wasn't the full letter shown and it's unusual that Collins only signed "MCollins" instead of his full name since the time period was a month before Apollo 11 flew. Was the letter on a NASA letterhead, was it addressed, and so on. Might even be a professional cut-paste-copied operation, but I may be going too far with a possibility as that, as I have seen before with popular and expensive pieces. |
davidcwagner
Member Posts: 799
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-22-2018 07:58 PM
It is on NASA letterhead from the Manned Spacecraft Center Houston. Looks like older thin paper with one tack hole at top center and one tack hole at bottom center. Paper folded lengthwise in thirds to fit in envelope, then folded again width wise to form a square.My scanner is not working or I would send a scan of the whole letter. I will bring it to Spacefest in July. |
davidcwagner
Member Posts: 799
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-22-2018 08:19 PM
I have been burned by high quality xerox copies in the past. Sometimes you get a bargain. I got a bronze Apollo 17 Robbins test strike medallion for $200. It is for sale at RR Auction. Opinions welcome. |
Wehaveliftoff
Member Posts: 2343
From:
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 03-22-2018 08:23 PM
Mr. Wagner, Congratulations, triplets! (ha) Cigars all around for your new "baby," astonishing. Do you remember how long the auction was posted? |
davidcwagner
Member Posts: 799
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-22-2018 08:48 PM
Auction was Buy-It-Now for $14. I bought it less than 1 hour after it was posted. |
SpaceyInMN
Member Posts: 355
From: Andover, MN
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted 03-22-2018 09:04 PM
Holy smokes! If those are, indeed, real signatures, you win the prize for the best deal I've ever seen on eBay.Incidentally, I have a very similar Michael Collins signature to the one on that letter. It's on one of the early black and white small photos the astronauts would hand out at promotional events, talks, etc. |
davidcwagner
Member Posts: 799
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-22-2018 09:18 PM
I was pretty sure these were secretarial signatures when I bought it. $14 a good price if secretarial. Bad price if a Xerox copy.I have a $300 xerox copy of a SpaceShots uncut sheet signed by Lovell, Cernan, and Conrad. That was a bad buy. |
Michael1976
Member Posts: 106
From: Chandler, AZ 85249
Registered: Nov 2011
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posted 03-24-2018 06:25 PM
These aren't "period" signatures. Let alone Aldrin and Collins signing in Sharpie in 1969? Were these added later? Huge red flag... |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 03-24-2018 06:49 PM
My pre-flight signed Apollo 11 cover has two of the three signatures in Sharpie. No red flag at all. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-24-2018 06:56 PM
For comparison, here is an October 1969 letter signed by the Apollo 11 crew with Armstrong and Aldrin in felt tip and Collins signing "MCollins" (as auctioned by Heritage, lot 40390, in April 2013) and a June 1969 letter signed by Armstrong and Aldrin with Aldrin in blue felt tip, with the signatures vertically aligned (as auctioned by RR Auction, lot 2077, in September 2016).  
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davidcwagner
Member Posts: 799
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-24-2018 07:55 PM
The format is identical to the June 23, 1969 letter, right down to the spacing between the 2 and 3 of the June 23, 1969 date stamp.Is the consensus that this is actually Apollo 11 crew signed? I really thought is was secretarial at best. |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 03-24-2018 08:08 PM
I do think that most of us think you got a letter dated less than a month before launch, mentioning Apollo, signed by the crew of Apollo 11, for $14. Considering that most of us could have been the buyer if we'd noticed it on eBay in time, most of us also think AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 03-24-2018 08:11 PM
Lucky DOG. |
Mike Dixon
Member Posts: 1397
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003
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posted 03-24-2018 08:57 PM
I'd have paid that for an autopen!! |
navyflyer1127
Member Posts: 68
From: Alexandria, VA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 03-24-2018 08:58 PM
I’m just glad to see there are gems still out there to find!! Congrats!! |
davidcwagner
Member Posts: 799
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-24-2018 11:26 PM
I almost did not pull the $14 trigger because it was described as a "probably made with a copier machine." The fact that it mentioned Snoopy was the deciding factor even for a copy. It arrived on my birthday. Best present I ever bought for myself. |
David Carey
Member Posts: 782
From:
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 03-25-2018 11:15 AM
Happy birthday indeed and congratulations — what an excellent find. Gave me the sensation of hearing a big win on a slot machine.  |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-25-2018 12:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by davidcwagner:
...the June 23, 1969 date stamp.
Given that we now have two examples of letters dated June 23, 1969, I wonder if that was the last day before the mission that the crew sat down to answer mail. Are there any known examples of letters dated after that day that come closer to the launch date? |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-25-2018 01:26 PM
Apparently so, huh, that Collins did sign a quick "MCollins" on two known letters before Apollo 11 flew. I have seen, but had forgotten about Trish's earlier crew letter provided by Jay Barbree, a limited few letters signed by Collins in full (1968-early '69). A couple of them were signed in full, that I know of, and when Collins was the signer of an awarded Silver Snoopy pin to a space worker (and rightly so), however, one of them contained an autopen signature of his. |
davidcwagner
Member Posts: 799
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-25-2018 02:13 PM
June 23, 1969 date stamp probably refers to the mailing date rather than the signing date.Possibly a stack of letters circulated around the astronaut office during the time of Apollo 10. Then these letters were collected, date stamped June 23, 1969 and mailed. Anyone else have date stamped June 23, 1969 letters? |
rbee
Member Posts: 59
From: England
Registered: Jun 2012
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posted 03-26-2018 12:58 PM
And I am happy to offer you 1000% more than you paid for it. |
Jonnyed
Member Posts: 396
From: Dumfries, VA, USA
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted 03-30-2018 07:49 PM
Maybe they meant $14 in 1969 dollars?  Even so, still a fantastic bargain. [grin]By the way, what are the ink stains near the word, "sincerely"... probably "wet" ink from the date stamp that bled after folding? Closely looking at those stains may give a good indication of copy vs. original? |
davidcwagner
Member Posts: 799
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-30-2018 11:16 PM
You have a good eye regarding the ink stain by "Sincerely." It is a mirror image of the June 23, 1969 ink date stamp.The letter RR Auction sold, pictured above, also has a fainter June 23, 1969 mirror image ink stain in an almost identical spot. How can I get the signature verified as original rather than secretarial? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-31-2018 03:43 AM
Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as an Apollo 11 crew secretarial autograph. Based on firsthand information, the Apollo 11 crew's secretaries did not sign for the astronauts. There is evidence that someone, perhaps in the NASA mail room, signed at one point some number of replies (apparently without the Apollo 11 crew's knowledge), but those signature styles differ greatly from those on your letter. |
randyc
Member Posts: 779
From: Chandler, AZ USA
Registered: May 2003
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posted 03-31-2018 08:15 PM
Have you ruled out that the letter is not a copy? Since it was typed there should be impressions in the paper from the typewriter and although Aldrin's signature might not have left an impression because he used a felt tip pen, Armstrong used a ballpoint pen which should have left an impression. If the back of the letter is completely smooth it is a copy. |
davidcwagner
Member Posts: 799
From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 03-31-2018 11:49 PM
Great advice. Clear indentations from the typewriter, especially the letter Y. Fainter but still distinct variable depth impression from the Armstrong ballpoint pen signature. collectSPACE is a gold mine of advice and information. |
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