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Author
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Topic: 162462040301: Moonwalkers-signed flag
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Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 04-07-2017 05:00 PM
   
I would like opinions on this moonwalkers' signed flag on eBay. I do not like any of the signatures but would like your opinion. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-07-2017 05:08 PM
Yeah, this passes the flag test... |
David C
Member Posts: 1015
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 04-07-2017 06:11 PM
If Armstrong famously didn't like signing on the flag of his Apollo WSS, why would he sign on a flag? Just sayin'. |
Steve Zarelli
Member Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-07-2017 07:29 PM
I'm against flag burning, but in this case I'd make an exception. |
calcheyup
Member Posts: 125
From:
Registered: May 2014
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posted 04-07-2017 07:53 PM
Whoever generated this piece (and it's not the joint work of 12 moonwalkers) really swung for the fences. As a brief aside, the Shepard (the only autograph I've studied enough that I would venture my amateur opinion on) looks similar to some other obviously non-authentic, hilariously overpriced pieces I've seen on eBay before.Another note, apparently both of the authenticators listed in this ad appear to be real operations. In that vein, my question is, what is the motivation of these outfits? Surely you aren't paid more money from a prospective client to authenticate it, as opposed to offering an inconclusive or negative opinion (in a world where everything is above board, of course). So are they just inept? Greedy? Downright crooked? I understand these are serious implications, but when you lend the name of your business to obvious forgeries, I'm afraid that you've opened that door to speculation yourself. Caveat emptor - I get it. I just wish some people could go to work like the rest of us to earn their money, instead of dedicating time and resources to finding the path of least resistance to separating others' from theirs. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 04-07-2017 08:46 PM
Let me offer this anecdote: A member of the UACC and Manuscript Society who also stated they were an autograph dealer for 25 years broke an Astronaut Autograph Club offering into its component parts: The photograph and the letter. They were offering the letter the same way as the photo: "true - authentic - hand signed." To their credit, they pulled the auction after I pointed out that the photos were all hand signed, but not the letter.I'm not sure if I kept their response, but they said something to the effect that because they bought it from an auction company (one known to sell astronaut autographs), they assumed both pieces had real signatures. So whether it's ineptness or just being sloppy, either way it's scary when you have to still do due diligence with trusted sources - because when you have to do that with everything a company offers, you might as well buy from somewhere else. |
SpaceyInMN
Member Posts: 355
From: Andover, MN
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted 04-07-2017 09:25 PM
Yeah, but the description states "...FBI approved, scientific forensic authentication." How can one possibly go wrong with that sort of iron-clad authentication?On a serious note, I'm familiar with both of these "authentication" companies from an autograph collector forum to which I belong. Both have been discussed as recently as today. Needless to say, as a general consensus, collectors on that forum avoid items authenticated by either of these companies. These signatures are just plain comical. I'm considering reporting the item to eBay, something I've never done. Is there any potential repercussion for reporting an item on eBay? |
Steve Zarelli
Member Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-07-2017 09:41 PM
A little research into Guaranteed Forensic Authenticators / GFA and Drew Max AAU will tell you all you need to know about these outfits. quote:
Originally posted by SpaceyInMN:
Is there any potential repercussion for reporting an item on eBay?
Other than completely wasting your time, no. |
SpaceyInMN
Member Posts: 355
From: Andover, MN
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted 04-07-2017 10:01 PM
Steve, will eBay not even do anything if there's a coordinated effort to report an item, i.e. if several collectors from a place like cS were to all report an item? I could understand if one or two reports went without action on their part, but I would hope they would act on numerous reports. Perhaps I'm hoping for too much. |
mode1charlie
Member Posts: 1169
From: Honolulu, HI
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 04-08-2017 12:19 AM
I'm not disputing the very strong consensus that these are bad — if Steve Zarelli says so then the king has spoken as far as I'm concerned.But for those of us who are less expert in these things, what are the things that leap out to make this so obvious? The Armstrong looks bad, and so does the Bean, but the others don't appear at first glance to be totally laughable. (Okay, the Schmitt and Irwin too.) |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 04-08-2017 01:23 AM
I'll take a stab and say the Dave Scott is the wrong size. |
SpaceyInMN
Member Posts: 355
From: Andover, MN
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted 04-08-2017 01:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mode1charlie:
...what are the things that leap out to make this so obvious?
I'll admit, the first time I glanced at it, I thought there were a few signatures that might be good, too. When I slowed down and took a closer look, however, the signatures are a total mess. The 'B' in Buzz is too rounded (although I know his can vary greatly). The 'G' in Gene Cernan has too sharp of a point in the upper right and the loop on top is too elongated. Mitchell's signature is way too neat. The Bean is too compressed, and so on. There's little (or, in some cases, glaring) things about each signature that give them away. Several of them appear to have been written by the same hand, and most likely were. It's unfortunate, because it appears whoever put this together put in considerable effort. While it's much too "busy" for my taste, and I'm not keen on people writing on the flag, I'm sure somebody would love this piece, if it was legitimate. I just hope nobody bids on it. I did report it to eBay, but based on what Steve said, I don't hold out hope that anything will come of it. |
4allmankind
Member Posts: 1043
From: Dallas
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 04-08-2017 06:44 AM
I'm fairly certain I saw this piece for sale in one of the memorabilia shops on the Las Vegas strip a number of years back. I remember it because of the terrible signatures but also because of the metallic art medals inside which I thought were quite odd. |
Steve Zarelli
Member Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-08-2017 12:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 4allmankind:
I'm fairly certain I saw this piece for sale in one of the memorabilia shops on the Las Vegas strip...
B-I-N-G-O! This is just the kind of overly gaudy display item you find in tourist trap "memorabilia galleries." Likely hanging on the wall next to other rarities like Beatles signed guitars, Marilyn Monroe signed glamour pics, Rat Pack signed 16x20 photos, and Ruth + Gehrig signed baseballs. All with COAs from some "court certified forensic expert." When one sells, as soon as the customer leaves, they take the next "rarity" out the back room and hang it in the same spot.
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bklyn55
Member Posts: 361
From: Milford, CT
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted 04-08-2017 03:15 PM
PLUS... they want $200 for shipping! |
jtheoret
Member Posts: 344
From: Albuquerque, NM USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 04-08-2017 08:48 PM
Of course they are all bad, but it is kind of remarkable (and scary) that some aren't laughably bad, especially if done by one or few hands. |
milkit1
Member Posts: 271
From: Springfield Illinois USA
Registered: Sep 2015
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posted 04-09-2017 03:55 PM
This most likely originated from Coach's Corner. Wins the award for worst forgery of the day (though I am sure that will be beaten any minute now). |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 04-10-2017 08:51 AM
Garbage x 12, but quite a production by a slick operator. You have to wonder if who ever put this thing together, knew that the signatures were all fake (was the forger), or after buying it went to much expense to present his "treasure" in the glorious way it deserved? |
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