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  John Glenn signed cover: authentic, autopen?

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Author Topic:   John Glenn signed cover: authentic, autopen?
MikeDee
Member

Posts: 55
From: Staten Island, NY USA
Registered: Mar 2013

posted 12-12-2016 09:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MikeDee   Click Here to Email MikeDee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a first day cover that was supposedly signed by John Glenn. I have tried to do some research on this to find out if it is an autopen or authentic. It's on an odd cover that is not related to space at all.

I was told by the person who gave it to me it was signed by John Glenn but I'm just not sure. Any advice would be very appreciated.

Wehaveliftoff
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Posts: 2343
From:
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 12-13-2016 12:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wehaveliftoff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It looks like it was signed by him as a Senator in the early '90s...

mode1charlie
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Posts: 1169
From: Honolulu, HI
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 12-13-2016 12:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mode1charlie   Click Here to Email mode1charlie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Definitely not autopen.

Ken Havekotte
Member

Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 12-13-2016 05:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just from my opinion, I don't like it at all.

My own signatures from Glenn span from 1959 to almost present day. Definitely not authentic nor autopen, however, could it be an unknown secretarial from his U.S. Senate career or just a plain forgery? Should I go a step further and say perhaps a very atypical Glenn signature on a very bad or tired day of his. Other comments?

MikeDee
Member

Posts: 55
From: Staten Island, NY USA
Registered: Mar 2013

posted 12-13-2016 07:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MikeDee   Click Here to Email MikeDee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wehaveliftoff:
It looks like it was signed by him as a Senator in the early '90s...
It's funny you mentioned that. The person who gave it to me said it was signed by Glenn as Senator. Either way I like having this in my collection. I will hold on to it.

Thanks for all the info and opinions guys. I appreciate it.

4allmankind
Member

Posts: 1043
From: Dallas
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 12-13-2016 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 4allmankind   Click Here to Email 4allmankind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There was an autograph seller at the last Spacefest that had a number of those covers, all with that exact Glenn-style signature for sale. They were stacked in a big Rubbermaid bucket — at least 5-10 of them. Another collector and I both stopped when we were flipping through the bucket and commented that they looked "off." We obviously passed on them.

We didn't ask for the source as to not start a big thing in that setting but it absolutely was that exact signature style on that exact cover.

Steve Zarelli
Member

Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 12-13-2016 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Zarelli   Click Here to Email Steve Zarelli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd be pretty surprised if this was authentic.

It's undersized, stretched out, wobbly and looks like it was slowly scrawled. Can't be defended as "rushed in-person" when it looks like it took two minutes to sign.

Thumbs down.

jtheoret
Member

Posts: 344
From: Albuquerque, NM USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 12-13-2016 08:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jtheoret   Click Here to Email jtheoret     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's not like any authentic Glenn I ever saw.

Wehaveliftoff
Member

Posts: 2343
From:
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 12-13-2016 10:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wehaveliftoff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glenn's signature from November 2010.

MikeDee
Member

Posts: 55
From: Staten Island, NY USA
Registered: Mar 2013

posted 12-13-2016 11:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MikeDee   Click Here to Email MikeDee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also found this listing from a John Glenn book signing on eBay. It looks pretty close.

My dad left me thousands and thousands of space covers. With a handful of signed covers. If anyone is ever looking for something in particular let me know. It will take me a while to find it but maybe I can help. I am trying to educate myself on this subject and I have been enjoying it very much. I collected baseball cards my whole life but this is pretty new to me. I think I like this hobby much more. Thanks everyone.

jtheoret
Member

Posts: 344
From: Albuquerque, NM USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 12-14-2016 01:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jtheoret   Click Here to Email jtheoret     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't like the John, especially the "Jo" - its unlike anything I've seen.

It is a great hobby though! Somethings you can spot from a mile away, and some result in eternal debate (those are the ones I try to stay away from). My test is simple, "do I want it in my collection?" When I've sold autographs I've tried to sell only items I would want in my collection as well and that there is no disagreement on.

If well respected and experienced folks like Ken or Steve question an item, I would destroy it rather than have it in my collection or sell it to someone else and have it in circulation. I've destroyed plenty of atypical and questionable items over the years - I think it helps the hobby and I'm confident about every item in my collection.

This Glenn, is definitely suspect. Glenn must have signed at least 100,000 items over 50 plus years. There are plenty of unquestionable ones out there.

Wehaveliftoff
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Posts: 2343
From:
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 12-14-2016 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wehaveliftoff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Which makes it all the more questioning, why in the world would anyone forge the most accessible signature out there?

Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member

Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 12-14-2016 10:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Because the general public doesn't know he's been freely signing for almost 60 years.

Or - and in general terms, not specific to this cover, someone sees an opportunity. Someone else is going to want a Glenn autograph, because they believe with his death, the value of his autograph will only increase – they're not familiar with his signature and what a real one looks like, but they want one. Put together an ignorant buyer and an unscrupulous sellers, and well...

Steve Zarelli
Member

Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 12-15-2016 08:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Zarelli   Click Here to Email Steve Zarelli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wehaveliftoff:
Which makes it all the more questioning, why in the world would anyone forge the most accessible signature out there?
Easy answer: $$$$

There are eBay sellers who routinely have signed 3x5 cards or cheap postal covers featuring the forged signatures of low value shuttle astronauts and aviation figures. The kind of signatures that most people would assume, "It must be okay... who would forge an Ellen Ochoa?!?"

Yet, they do. Low value forgeries fly below the radar, and over time, many hundreds of items sold for $8-$20 each adds up.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 12-16-2016 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Heritage Auctions put out this release, on this topic, today...
Beware of Fake John Glenn Autographs and Memorabilia, Warn Experts at Heritage Auctions

Authentic space-flown, autographed items can be worth more than $20,000

Following the death of former astronaut and Senator John Glenn, experts at Heritage Auctions – the world's largest collectibles auctioneer – caution collectors about fake and forged autographs entering the marketplace.

"Whenever a celebrity or historical figure passes, we quickly see spurious signatures and counterfeit memorabilia being offered online and at flea markets," said Michael Riley, director of Space Collectibles at Heritage Auctions. "Legendary astronaut John Glenn's passing is an opportunity for fraudsters to trick the public with forged autographs and other fake items purportedly from him."

Glenn, the man author Tom Wolfe called "the last true national hero America has ever made" died Dec. 8. The former war hero, astronaut and United States Senator was revered across the country, and his death elicited an outpouring of sentiment to his family from around the globe he once circumnavigated.

Following his history-making achievement as the first American to orbit the Earth to his career in the U.S. Senate and even a bid for the U.S. Presidency, Glenn lent his autograph often on objects as diverse as baseballs, book signings of his memoir, publicity photographs and many other keepsakes.

If the price is too low to be believed, there is a chance the item is fake, forged or stolen. Consider that in October 2009, a photo with a mat signed by 28 astronauts – including Glenn – sold for $15,535. In October 2008, a pair of Mercury 7 Type M Test Gloves Glenn wore sold for $7,170. In May 2016, a Glenn-autographed photo of himself in an orange spacesuit that was taken for his STS-95 mission in 1998, when at 77 he became the oldest person to fly in space, sold for $750.

Genuine Glenn autographs usually sell for $50-$100, and higher for special items, such as an authentic signature on a genuine item related to his career as an astronaut, like a Mercury-Atlas 6 (Friendship 7) Space Flown One Dollar Bill, which sold for more than $20,000 at auction, according to Riley.

Hopefully, the market will not be flooded with Glenn-signed memorabilia. He has been in the public eye since 1959 as an astronaut and U.S. Senator and has willingly signed items, so there is no shortage of his mementos on the market.

"The ideal method of authenticating an autograph is to get it in the hands of a knowledgeable expert," Riley said. "Those extremely familiar with his signature can determine if it is real or a fake."

Nonetheless, there are steps people can take to reduce the risk of getting lured into a transaction that is done dishonestly, priced unfairly, or even both:

  • Always make sure to buy and sell through a reputable dealer.

  • Beware of Autopen Signatures. The Autopen (a machine that produces mechanized replicas of autographs) can appear authentic, but there is a website that allows collectors to check signatures against known machine patterns.

moonnut
Member

Posts: 248
From: Andover, MN
Registered: Apr 2013

posted 12-23-2016 12:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for moonnut   Click Here to Email moonnut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Before Glenn's death, I could say that on eBay I would see an occasional suspect signature. Now, due to the signatures selling at about two to three times the previous values, I'm seeing what appears to be at least 30%+ of the signatures on eBay appearing to be suspect. The forgers are in full force now.

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