Author
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Topic: John Glenn signed cover: authentic, autopen?
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MikeDee Member Posts: 55 From: Staten Island, NY USA Registered: Mar 2013
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posted 12-12-2016 09:27 PM
I have a first day cover that was supposedly signed by John Glenn. I have tried to do some research on this to find out if it is an autopen or authentic. It's on an odd cover that is not related to space at all. I was told by the person who gave it to me it was signed by John Glenn but I'm just not sure. Any advice would be very appreciated.  
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Wehaveliftoff Member Posts: 2343 From: Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 12-13-2016 12:18 AM
It looks like it was signed by him as a Senator in the early '90s... |
mode1charlie Member Posts: 1169 From: Honolulu, HI Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 12-13-2016 12:24 AM
Definitely not autopen.
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Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2914 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 12-13-2016 05:00 AM
Just from my opinion, I don't like it at all.My own signatures from Glenn span from 1959 to almost present day. Definitely not authentic nor autopen, however, could it be an unknown secretarial from his U.S. Senate career or just a plain forgery? Should I go a step further and say perhaps a very atypical Glenn signature on a very bad or tired day of his. Other comments? |
MikeDee Member Posts: 55 From: Staten Island, NY USA Registered: Mar 2013
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posted 12-13-2016 07:49 AM
quote: Originally posted by Wehaveliftoff: It looks like it was signed by him as a Senator in the early '90s...
It's funny you mentioned that. The person who gave it to me said it was signed by Glenn as Senator. Either way I like having this in my collection. I will hold on to it. Thanks for all the info and opinions guys. I appreciate it. |
4allmankind Member Posts: 1043 From: Dallas Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 12-13-2016 11:01 AM
There was an autograph seller at the last Spacefest that had a number of those covers, all with that exact Glenn-style signature for sale. They were stacked in a big Rubbermaid bucket — at least 5-10 of them. Another collector and I both stopped when we were flipping through the bucket and commented that they looked "off." We obviously passed on them. We didn't ask for the source as to not start a big thing in that setting but it absolutely was that exact signature style on that exact cover. |
Steve Zarelli Member Posts: 731 From: Upstate New York, USA Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 12-13-2016 12:37 PM
I'd be pretty surprised if this was authentic. It's undersized, stretched out, wobbly and looks like it was slowly scrawled. Can't be defended as "rushed in-person" when it looks like it took two minutes to sign.  Thumbs down. |
jtheoret Member Posts: 344 From: Albuquerque, NM USA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 12-13-2016 08:51 PM
It's not like any authentic Glenn I ever saw. |
Wehaveliftoff Member Posts: 2343 From: Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 12-13-2016 10:52 PM
Glenn's signature from November 2010. |
MikeDee Member Posts: 55 From: Staten Island, NY USA Registered: Mar 2013
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posted 12-13-2016 11:17 PM
I also found this listing from a John Glenn book signing on eBay. It looks pretty close.My dad left me thousands and thousands of space covers. With a handful of signed covers. If anyone is ever looking for something in particular let me know. It will take me a while to find it but maybe I can help. I am trying to educate myself on this subject and I have been enjoying it very much. I collected baseball cards my whole life but this is pretty new to me. I think I like this hobby much more. Thanks everyone. |
jtheoret Member Posts: 344 From: Albuquerque, NM USA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 12-14-2016 01:09 AM
I don't like the John, especially the "Jo" - its unlike anything I've seen. It is a great hobby though! Somethings you can spot from a mile away, and some result in eternal debate (those are the ones I try to stay away from). My test is simple, "do I want it in my collection?" When I've sold autographs I've tried to sell only items I would want in my collection as well and that there is no disagreement on. If well respected and experienced folks like Ken or Steve question an item, I would destroy it rather than have it in my collection or sell it to someone else and have it in circulation. I've destroyed plenty of atypical and questionable items over the years - I think it helps the hobby and I'm confident about every item in my collection. This Glenn, is definitely suspect. Glenn must have signed at least 100,000 items over 50 plus years. There are plenty of unquestionable ones out there. |
Wehaveliftoff Member Posts: 2343 From: Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 12-14-2016 08:47 PM
Which makes it all the more questioning, why in the world would anyone forge the most accessible signature out there? |
Hart Sastrowardoyo Member Posts: 3445 From: Toms River, NJ Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 12-14-2016 10:46 PM
Because the general public doesn't know he's been freely signing for almost 60 years. Or - and in general terms, not specific to this cover, someone sees an opportunity. Someone else is going to want a Glenn autograph, because they believe with his death, the value of his autograph will only increase – they're not familiar with his signature and what a real one looks like, but they want one. Put together an ignorant buyer and an unscrupulous sellers, and well... |
Steve Zarelli Member Posts: 731 From: Upstate New York, USA Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 12-15-2016 08:51 AM
quote: Originally posted by Wehaveliftoff: Which makes it all the more questioning, why in the world would anyone forge the most accessible signature out there?
Easy answer: $$$$  There are eBay sellers who routinely have signed 3x5 cards or cheap postal covers featuring the forged signatures of low value shuttle astronauts and aviation figures. The kind of signatures that most people would assume, "It must be okay... who would forge an Ellen Ochoa?!?" Yet, they do. Low value forgeries fly below the radar, and over time, many hundreds of items sold for $8-$20 each adds up. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-16-2016 02:04 PM
Heritage Auctions put out this release, on this topic, today... Beware of Fake John Glenn Autographs and Memorabilia, Warn Experts at Heritage AuctionsAuthentic space-flown, autographed items can be worth more than $20,000 Following the death of former astronaut and Senator John Glenn, experts at Heritage Auctions – the world's largest collectibles auctioneer – caution collectors about fake and forged autographs entering the marketplace. "Whenever a celebrity or historical figure passes, we quickly see spurious signatures and counterfeit memorabilia being offered online and at flea markets," said Michael Riley, director of Space Collectibles at Heritage Auctions. "Legendary astronaut John Glenn's passing is an opportunity for fraudsters to trick the public with forged autographs and other fake items purportedly from him." Glenn, the man author Tom Wolfe called "the last true national hero America has ever made" died Dec. 8. The former war hero, astronaut and United States Senator was revered across the country, and his death elicited an outpouring of sentiment to his family from around the globe he once circumnavigated. Following his history-making achievement as the first American to orbit the Earth to his career in the U.S. Senate and even a bid for the U.S. Presidency, Glenn lent his autograph often on objects as diverse as baseballs, book signings of his memoir, publicity photographs and many other keepsakes. If the price is too low to be believed, there is a chance the item is fake, forged or stolen. Consider that in October 2009, a photo with a mat signed by 28 astronauts – including Glenn – sold for $15,535. In October 2008, a pair of Mercury 7 Type M Test Gloves Glenn wore sold for $7,170. In May 2016, a Glenn-autographed photo of himself in an orange spacesuit that was taken for his STS-95 mission in 1998, when at 77 he became the oldest person to fly in space, sold for $750. Genuine Glenn autographs usually sell for $50-$100, and higher for special items, such as an authentic signature on a genuine item related to his career as an astronaut, like a Mercury-Atlas 6 (Friendship 7) Space Flown One Dollar Bill, which sold for more than $20,000 at auction, according to Riley. Hopefully, the market will not be flooded with Glenn-signed memorabilia. He has been in the public eye since 1959 as an astronaut and U.S. Senator and has willingly signed items, so there is no shortage of his mementos on the market. "The ideal method of authenticating an autograph is to get it in the hands of a knowledgeable expert," Riley said. "Those extremely familiar with his signature can determine if it is real or a fake." Nonetheless, there are steps people can take to reduce the risk of getting lured into a transaction that is done dishonestly, priced unfairly, or even both: - Always make sure to buy and sell through a reputable dealer.
- Beware of Autopen Signatures. The Autopen (a machine that produces mechanized replicas of autographs) can appear authentic, but there is a website that allows collectors to check signatures against known machine patterns.
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moonnut Member Posts: 248 From: Andover, MN Registered: Apr 2013
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posted 12-23-2016 12:37 AM
Before Glenn's death, I could say that on eBay I would see an occasional suspect signature. Now, due to the signatures selling at about two to three times the previous values, I'm seeing what appears to be at least 30%+ of the signatures on eBay appearing to be suspect. The forgers are in full force now. |