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Author
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Topic: Market for Gemini-Titan 5 flown checklist pages
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Bob M
Member Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-08-2014 02:21 PM
   
Around 2000, David Frohman visited a well-known collector-dealer and bought a complete and intact GT-5 flown checklist that had been documented and signed only on the top page by Charles Conrad.The individual pages of the checklist were then removed by Frohman and taken to Conrad to document and sign each of the many pages. The individual pages were quickly put on sale for, as I remember, $250 each, and for a while appeared for sale elsewhere. But I haven't seen any of these flown pages available for some time and wonder what they might be going for now and how many were involved? Also, I would suspect that these detached pages from an intact flown checklist were perhaps among the first intact flown material to be broken up and sold separately. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-08-2014 02:32 PM
One of these pages was just recently sold on eBay for $1,384 by a cS member. |
Joel Katzowitz
Member Posts: 808
From: Marietta GA USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 09-08-2014 02:33 PM
I have one of those pages Bob. It's labeled "Miscellaneous Electrical" and is a schematic that references the cabin lights, a photometer, a 16mm movie camera and a photo event indicator. It's inscribed as flown on Gemini V and signed by Conrad. I also have the photo of him signing my particular page. The page is 10"x17", single sided, on regular weight paper, with two folds.I believe I obtained it in a trade at one of Russ Still's geekfests, although I can't remember the specifics. If I'm not mistaken, you and Frohman were both there. It's a wonderful artifact and, now that you mention it, I haven't seen one available for a long time. |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-08-2014 03:27 PM
Thanks, Joel. While I went to 2-3 of the geekfests, I was never there with Frohman and only met him after he phoned and wanted to visit to check out my collection, and then to see what he could trade for. Unfortunately, the trades could be called "one-sided." |
Joel Katzowitz
Member Posts: 808
From: Marietta GA USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 09-08-2014 04:47 PM
Hmmm, well I know Frohman attended at least one of Russ's get togethers. I remember he had a strap that Conrad had used on the lunar surface, it was displayed on some sort of glass sculpture. I believe it was shortly after Conrad's death. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 09-08-2014 06:27 PM
Yes, unfortunately, it was Frohman that managed to talk me out of a flown GT-5 checklist manual (I think two of them with this one being Gemini V's Experiments Procedures) and Pete Conrad's left-sided PLSS backpack strap.In addition, he also got a few sets of my Apollo 11 crew-signed insurance covers along with some nice Armstrong autographed artifacts. In looking back all those years, yes indeed, it was a big mistake — of which I do take full responsibility — of letting so many quality space items go to him. |
Joel Katzowitz
Member Posts: 808
From: Marietta GA USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 09-08-2014 06:48 PM
I forgot that you were involved in some of this Ken. I also have a page from the Experimental Procedures manual that you mentioned. It's formatted differently than the system schematic and it's not signed. I got the page from Sandy which I assume originated with you. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 09-08-2014 09:35 PM
Joel, I did keep a limited number of pages from a few of my Conrad-owned/flown GT-5 & 11 checklist manuals, however, I think 2-3 of them were traded off or sold fully intact. And yes, I think Sandy did get a few unsigned pages from me not too long ago.To answer another question of yours, Joel, and if I can recall without re-checking my records, Frohman purchased my Conrad left-sided PLSS backpack strap in the early weeks of 1999. Both of Conrad's used backpack straps had been a part of my 3rd Apollo moonwalker memorabilia collections since 1991/92. It had only been a few short months before the veteran Gemini/Apollo/Skylab astronaut pioneer was tragically killed in a motorcycle accident in July of that same year. |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-09-2014 10:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
In looking back all those years, yes indeed, it was a big mistake — of which I do take full responsibility — of letting so many quality space items go to him.
Ken was only one of a number of collectors that Frohman eagerly visited in the early formative years of his Peachstate business. With Ken, he pried away and paid for some exceptional material. But with others, including myself, he was only interested in trading, and many of his unfortunate trading partners who traded their authentic material to him were left with Peachstate Armstrong, Collins and Apollo 11 fakes. |
nasamad
Member Posts: 2121
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 09-09-2014 02:46 PM
I think I vaguely remember our dear friend Leon Ford finally acquired both of Conrad's PLSS straps as part of his collection. I don't know if they were still part of it when he (Leon) passed. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-09-2014 02:53 PM
One thing I think we should be careful of here: despite their sale history, I don't think there's any reason to disparage the Gemini-Titan 5 flown checklist pages that are in collections today. They remain a desirable artifact to be collected with no questions about their authenticity. |
Sam Que
Member Posts: 180
From: Chicago, IL, United States
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 09-09-2014 03:11 PM
Robert, I appreciate you saying this. I had purchased three Gemini V checklist pages from an auction house earlier in the year and was very happy to have had the opportunity to add these pages to my collection. I wasn't aware of the circumstances of how/where these checklist pages originated. This thread was very informative for me. Thank you all. |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-10-2014 08:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by nasamad:
I think I vaguely remember our dear friend Leon Ford finally acquired both of Conrad's PLSS straps as part of his collection. I don't know if they were still part of it when he (Leon) passed.
One of the two Conrad PLSS straps were separated at the seam by Frohman in 1999 to create a "sub-strap" that he had documented by Conrad. This "part" was removed prior to his sale of the larger, but then incomplete, strap to Leon Ford. So, at one time, Leon owned only about one and 3/4 of the two Conrad PLSS lunar surface straps. But later discovering the undisclosed removal, demanded the missing part and was finally able to reunite the two. But the story continues and evidently Leon did sell the sub-strap at least, as a collector friend now owns it. So besides separating the intact GT-5 checklist into individual pages, Frohman also separated a complete PLSS strap into two separate parts. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 09-10-2014 08:58 AM
This makes me wonder whether there are any intact checklists left - I have always wanted to own a full checklist, but have only managed to get hold of a few pages here and there. |
328KF
Member Posts: 1234
From:
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 09-10-2014 10:55 AM
Sadly, it appears that some of the Gemini V checklist pages have been cut up into these tiny scraps for sale. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 09-10-2014 11:15 AM
That was a blank Gemini V page — something that (honestly) I regret doing. Even though it was blank. I remember sitting there and hovering over the page with the scissors thinking to myself "are you sure this is a good idea?"I would like to get hold of a full Apollo checklist... don't think that will happen though. |
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