Posts: 1966
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 10-15-2013 06:35 AM               

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Has anyone bought one of these from the seller 360atlas? They are priced up to $1,000 and are said to contain mementos from the Apollo flights. However these auctions are all illustrated with the graphic below, which does not give me much confidence in the value offered.

You can see a sample of these auctions here.

Posts: 281
From: Belleville, IL
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 10-15-2013 08:45 AM               

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I have a few thoughts on this:

If the items have a value of $1000 then why not just clearly list the items and avoid the guessing game?

Is it possible that the seller added an extra zero on to the price and intended this to be a $100?

For that price those items better be spectacular. If not, everyone is going to be disappointed including negative feedback for the seller.

Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-15-2013 09:52 AM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by gliderpilotuk:
...there's money in it for eBay, so anything goes.

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It also costs eBay each time they have to investigate a fraud complaint.

With millions of listings being made daily, there would be no practical way to police if every auction included a valid photo (after all, these "surprise" listings include an image, just not an image of the product(s) being offered).

As always, it comes down to caveat emptor, regardless the venue. If you decide to take the risk and are burned, that's not eBay's fault — it's the seller's ...and yours.

Posts: 179
From: Douglasville, Ga U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2009

posted 10-15-2013 10:06 AM               

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I totally disagree Robert, eBay's number one obligation is to the buyer! With all the technology available eBay has to have a way to police sellers like this.

But I have to admit I would never buy something without knowing what it is first.

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-15-2013 10:20 AM               

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So if you buy a used car through your local newspaper's classified ads and it turns out to be a lemon, your newspaper is at fault?

eBay is not an auction house; it uses the an auction format (among others) to sell, but it operates much more as a classified ad listing service.

It's convenient to place the blame on eBay because it makes money, but so does your local newspaper and every other for-profit company.

Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010

Posts: 179
From: Douglasville, Ga U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2009

posted 10-15-2013 10:33 AM               

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If I was buying a used car I had seen in a newspaper I would go and see what it looks like and what kind of condition it was in before I buy it or not.

eBay's not an auction house? Really! Technically is is! You bid on items the last usually last 3 to 7 days and the highest bidder wins! Isn't that an auction?

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-15-2013 10:47 AM               

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You, the buyer, made a choice to see the car before buying it. You took action. The same way you, the buyer, could insist on seeing the contents of the "surprise" package before buying, or not buy it.

You, the buyer, are responsible for your decisions. The seller is responsible for conducting an honest, good faith sale.

eBay and the newspaper are only venues for the sale between you and the seller.

And no, eBay is not an auction house. An auction house receives consignments, in most cases takes physical hold of the item being sold, writes the description and sets the price. eBay does none of those things. It uses an auction format, but is not an auction house.

Posts: 179
From: Douglasville, Ga U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2009

Posts: 138
From: WV, USA
Registered: Sep 2006

Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-16-2013 05:54 AM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
eBay is not an auction house; it uses the an auction format (among others) to sell, but it operates much more as a classified ad listing service.

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So if it is operating in that capacity why does it do a half-hearted job of policing anything, like forgeries, fraud and IP violations? At ~10% fees and $2bn net income it's a damned expensive classified ad service that could easily employ smart software to scan new listings for terms of service and other violations.

I don't disagree with caveat emptor as a personal principle but I do disagree with eBay's disingenuous implication of propriety and simultaneous avoidance of an outright "caveat emptor" statement in its terms of service. Their lawyers leave the picture suitably opaque so that it looks like there's a semblance of oversight but in reality eBay carries no liability for due diligence.

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-16-2013 09:05 AM               

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As Greg (GTspace) points out above, eBay does investigate each user-submitted report — as well as initiates its own anti-fraud investigations based on automated and manual monitoring of sales.

Behind the scenes, eBay has programs like Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) and Enhanced Member Reporting (EMR) that provide those with the proper accreditation the ability to shut down fraudulent sales promptly. That is why you sometimes see problem cases being discussed here quickly disappear from eBay (not my own doing, but EMR members who also belong to this community).

Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-16-2013 01:57 PM               

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I wrote the seller to point out his listings were in violation of eBay's rules.

He says he is now working on photos to add to the lots and that he does not plan to continue with blind or surprise sales.

Posts: 21
From: Boynton Beach, FL
Registered: Oct 2013

posted 10-17-2013 02:45 AM            

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VeRO's are very different from anyone else on eBay. Primarily, a VeRO is a verified intellectual property rights owner. The protect themselves (and in some cases others) from copyright infringement, theft of proprietary information or someone who has licentious regard for copyright law.

As someone else stated previously, anyone can report anything they want on eBay and I see it daily when it comes to competitors fighting over what they are selling and other foofaraw. I am a VeRO on eBay and what we use for reporting is called a VeRO Reporting Tool or VRT that allows us to enforce violations of our intellectual property as well as enforce IP violations of others who grant us specific rights to do so. As is the case with the FBI, I can enforce certain IP violations with FBI merchandise branded with the words Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF). Most major companies/corporations have a VeRO account and they use it to protect their own IPs. For example, Atlantic Records uses their VeRO account to remove counterfeit, bootleg and unlawful reproductions of their recordings. I hope that helps you understand a little better what a VeRO actually is.

You can view most of the official participating VeRO members at this link here.

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-17-2013 03:04 AM               

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Thanks, and welcome to collectSPACE.

Like you, I've used the VeRO program to put a halt to infringing sales. My mention of the VeRO program however, was only as an example of the types of protective programs eBay has in place. It was not intended to suggest it had application to the "surprise" sales being discussed here. Apologies if that was not clear.

Posts: 21
From: Boynton Beach, FL
Registered: Oct 2013

Posts: 226
From: Maryland, USA
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 11-15-2013 05:30 PM            

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In my experience, eBay doesn't bother to police their listings, even when notified of fraudulent items. It seems that they only bother if they fear a listing will gain wide publicity.

Case in point, for years there have been several sellers constantly selling "autographs" that are in fact color prints of autographed items. I have personally notified eBay of a dozen such listings, however they are never pulled, never modified, and the sellers simply re-post the listing (printing another copy) as soon as some unsuspecting victim buys the last one. Many of these sellers have a constant stream of 50 or more of these auctions going on at all times, which I suspect is why eBay doesn't police them - they like the steady revenue from these sales.

I use eBay all the time, but do your homework and Buyer Beware!

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 11-15-2013 09:10 PM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by MadSci:
...which I suspect is why eBay doesn't police them - they like the steady revenue from these sales.

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The revenue from a handful of questionable sales — even say a few hundred — is pittance compared to the hundreds of millions that are on-going on any given day.

eBay has little reason to care if they lose the commission from any given fraudulent sale, but they have every reason to care that their members feel safe doing business on the site. Individual anecdotes aside, there is plenty of evidence that they do police their listings.