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  111127367013: Flown flag (Glynn Lunney estate)

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Author Topic:   111127367013: Flown flag (Glynn Lunney estate)
mode1charlie
Member

Posts: 646
From: Honolulu, HI, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 07-29-2013 08:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mode1charlie   Click Here to Email mode1charlie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This "absolutely stunning" flag that was 'flown to the moon on the Apollo 15 mission" was supposedly purchased "from the estate of flight director Glynn Lunney" and "is guarenteed authentic!" [sic].

This may come as news to Mr. Lunney, who the last time I checked, was very much alive.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 30069
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 07-29-2013 08:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Without commenting on the authenticity of the flag, you needn't be dead to hold an estate sale. Some people hire estate salesmen when they are moving, or simply down-scaling their possessions.

That said, caveat emptor.

SpaceAholic
Member

Posts: 3240
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 07-29-2013 08:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't think the seller is attempting to be dishonest here. Most folks are unfamiliar with Lunney or his role in the program (and the listing doesn't even really attempt to exploit/hype up the provenance).

mode1charlie
Member

Posts: 646
From: Honolulu, HI, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 07-29-2013 08:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mode1charlie   Click Here to Email mode1charlie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, Robert - you're right. I always thought an estate sale referred specifically to the sale of items owned by people who have passed on, but after your comment I checked Wikipedia, which says:
An estate sale or estate liquidation is a sale or auction to dispose of a substantial portion of the materials owned by a person who is recently deceased or who must dispose of his or her personal property to facilitate a move.
I stand corrected on the definition. But does anyone know if Mr. Lunney has indeed proffered part of his collection to an estate sale? (I don't plan to bid on the item either way, so this is purely out of curiosity on my part.)

stsmithva
Member

Posts: 1488
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 07-29-2013 10:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stsmithva   Click Here to Email stsmithva     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Strange that there is nothing whatsoever included in the listing that would prove the flag was flown. It isn't on one of the usual certificates, and there is nothing written on it. The seller doesn't say how he knows it was flown, much less how he knows it was on Apollo 16.

SkyMan1958
Member

Posts: 464
From: CA.
Registered: Jan 2011

posted 07-29-2013 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SkyMan1958   Click Here to Email SkyMan1958     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The seller has a positive feedback rating of 98.6. That is a red warning, as basically anything below 99+% on eBay is not a good sign.

Rick Mulheirn
Member

Posts: 2716
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 07-30-2013 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At the risk of stating the obvious the lack of provenance means the flag is worthless.

rgarner
Member

Posts: 443
From: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 07-30-2013 07:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SkyMan1958:
...anything below 99+% on eBay is not a good sign.
Completely disagree. The fact that you can't give buyers negative feedback (which is ridiculous) has led people to be more cavalier in their approach to feedback, meaning if there is an issue then people simply leave negative feedback without trying to resolve the situation - that is MY personal experience.

I do however think it is important to read the negative feedback, rather than just look at the percentage to see what type of problem was encountered.

rgarner
Member

Posts: 443
From: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 07-30-2013 07:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is the sellers negative feedback:
  1. Item did not work, Did not respond to 2 emails, very poor service
  2. hate to do this, clock did not work and seller will not help
Both refer to electrical items. You can't judge this flag on account of this feedback.

But with that said... I do agree with the other comments above. My issue is that there is no real detail given on the listing, nor is there a COA of any kind.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member

Posts: 2506
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 07-30-2013 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Feedback is a numbers game, and doesn't really tell much about transaction. How many pluses do you put after the A? How does 'fast payment' tell you about the buyer, and does it mean within 3 days or 10? How does 'great item, thanks!' tell you about the seller?

rgarner
Member

Posts: 443
From: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 07-30-2013 09:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You're right in the sense that is does nothing to uphold any authenticity that this item has, that can only be done with a legitimate COA and/or historical provenance. In this instance, that is the case. But to say that having 1 or 2 negative feedback ratings out of hundreds makes a bad seller is obviously, both logically and mathmatically, wrong.

If it says 'great ebayer, etc.' then that is good enough to know the seller has delivered a service suitable to that individual. The above feedback clearly states that the seller was not interested in resolving the problem, THAT is useful. But again, doesn't help in this case. I was merely pointing out that the feedback system has a lot of flaws and such things should always be taken with a pinch of salt, not used as gospel.

mach3valkyrie
Member

Posts: 336
From: Albany, Oregon USA
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 07-30-2013 05:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mach3valkyrie   Click Here to Email mach3valkyrie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I emailed the seller asking if there was any proof or provenance that this flag flew on Apollo 15. I haven't received a reply as yet.

Right now the bid is $406 with 4 bids from 2 different bidders, so maybe proof won't matter to some.

fredtrav
Member

Posts: 1123
From: Birmingham AL USA
Registered: Aug 2010

posted 07-30-2013 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fredtrav   Click Here to Email fredtrav     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had done the same thing yesterday and again today. Have heard nothing. Right now it is a nice American flag you can buy anywhere.

BMckay
Member

Posts: 2095
From: MA, USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 07-30-2013 08:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BMckay   Click Here to Email BMckay     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The seller's response:
If you would like to take it to a third party company to get authenticated, i can guarentee it will pass. The flag was part of Glynn's scrapbook from NASA and was labeled "Flown to the Moon on Apollo 15 Mission" underneath the flag. It was purchased directly from his estate along with other NASA items. I have not gone through all of the items yet so I'm not sure if there is any more flown items. What I did see are many photos of the astronauts frp, the Apollo 15 mission at Glynn's house in Old Forge, PA and various photos of other Apollo missions.

Greggy_D
Member

Posts: 780
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 07-30-2013 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greggy_D   Click Here to Email Greggy_D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And the "third party" will not pass authentication without provenance.

SpaceAholic
Member

Posts: 3240
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 07-30-2013 09:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He's already offering some implicit provenance...that would be his parents house (in Old Forge) evidently.

fredtrav
Member

Posts: 1123
From: Birmingham AL USA
Registered: Aug 2010

posted 07-30-2013 11:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fredtrav   Click Here to Email fredtrav     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is his reply to my question about provenance:
If you would like to take it to a third party company to get authenticated, i can guarentee it will pass. The flag was part of Glynn's scrapbook from NASA and was labeled "Flown to the Moon on Apollo 15 Mission" underneath the flag. It was purchased directly from his estate along with other NASA items. I have not gone through all of the items yet so I'm not sure if there is any more flown items. What I did see are many photos of the astronauts frp, the Apollo 15 mission at Glynn's house in Old Forge, PA and various photos of other Apollo missions.
The problem with sending it to a third party authenticator is there is nothing to authenticate. I believe this is probably real, but there is no way to prove it.

mach3valkyrie
Member

Posts: 336
From: Albany, Oregon USA
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 07-31-2013 01:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mach3valkyrie   Click Here to Email mach3valkyrie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I got the same reply from the seller, word for word.

Tallpaul
Member

Posts: 22
From: Rocky Point, NY, USA
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 07-31-2013 11:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tallpaul     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why not post a picture of the flag on the actual page from the scrapbook?

fredtrav
Member

Posts: 1123
From: Birmingham AL USA
Registered: Aug 2010

posted 07-31-2013 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fredtrav   Click Here to Email fredtrav     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does not Glynn Lunney live in Houston? I know he was born in Old Forge, PA, but I believe he has lived in the Houston area for many years.

I guess it is possible for him to have kept the family home and is now cleaning it out, but it seems odd that he would keep his scrapbooks and other items there.

vidoz
Member

Posts: 77
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Aug 2011

posted 08-01-2013 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vidoz   Click Here to Email vidoz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We can just speculate about the provenance of that item. But, if the seller doesn't offer any proof, to me, the flag doesn't worth anything.

So, I would stay away from it.

mach3valkyrie
Member

Posts: 336
From: Albany, Oregon USA
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 08-01-2013 02:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mach3valkyrie   Click Here to Email mach3valkyrie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The flag sold for $999.54 with 11 bids from 4 bidders. Someone thinks it has great value, but lacking a solid provenance, it looks like money wasted to me.

onesmallstep
Member

Posts: 727
From: Staten Island, New York USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 08-01-2013 02:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for onesmallstep   Click Here to Email onesmallstep     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Right now on eBay there is a flown Nauru flag taken aboard Apollo 15, signed/inscribed on the front by Col. Al Worden, and with a COA from him, at a 'Buy it Now' price of $1,875.00. So do you take your chances on the Lunney flag, or opt to go with an authenticated one with great provenance at double the price? Decisions, decisions.

fredtrav
Member

Posts: 1123
From: Birmingham AL USA
Registered: Aug 2010

posted 08-01-2013 03:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fredtrav   Click Here to Email fredtrav     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are about 55 flown Apollo 15 flown flags signed by Al Worden on eBay for $1875. There is a make offer button on them. As these were selling in auction for about $1000 you could make an offer around that amount or a littler higher and see what he says.

An American flag especially an 11X8 is worth more than these, but without the provenance it is not worth anything. Anyone could buy an 11x8 flag and say it came from an astronaut and was flown to the moon. I wrote the seller and suggested he pull the flag until he could get a notarized letter from Mr. Lunney stating its provenance. I told him with this he might double, triple, or more his money, but he ignored it.

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