Posts: 1499
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000

posted 10-31-2011 01:24 AM               

---

I have the following cover:

It's supposed to be signed by the first black astronaut and MOL candidate Robert Lawrence. However the signature differs from what I've seen so far. Could that be from an earlier time period?

Anyone knows anything? Thanks,

Florian

Posts: 660
From: Northville MI USA
Registered: Aug 2005

Posts: 1499
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000

posted 11-01-2011 01:04 AM               

---

Tom, thanks for your opinion - I'm confused, too.

But since he wrote MOL I'd say we are speaking of the same Lawrence, that was my initial thought as well that there is another Lawrence.

Posts: 1031
From: Leeds, Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Oct 2000

Posts: 235
From: Cumberland, Wisconsin
Registered: Aug 2001

Posts: 660
From: Northville MI USA
Registered: Aug 2005

Posts: 691
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 11-01-2011 04:22 PM               

---

You may compare the signatures with this signature.

liftoff1's almost certainly is a fake. It does not show any personality. Moreover, no collector would put two stamps on the left side of the cover and have it postmarked on the day of the signer's funeral just for saving the right upper place for being postmarked on an event which might occur 1 1/2 years later.

Florian's writing and signature is nearer to the linked one.

Posts: 235
From: Cumberland, Wisconsin
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 11-02-2011 09:33 AM               

---

I think there is a very good chance that your example and the one that I posted were signed by the same person. One example is in printed form and the other is cursive.

I am not savvy enough to post side-by-side images, but if you look closely and the "LAWRENCE" part of both signatures you will see that the writing style is identical with the only differences being in letters that are printed vs. letters that are written in cursive. The writing is similar enough to the point of being identical in my opinion.

Incidentally, I do not own the example which I posted. I merely offered up as an example for comparison purposes.

And, slightly off the subject, does anyone else think that there appears to be a newspaper clipping included inside the cover which I posted the image of? Perhaps the winner of this cover is a forum member and can enlighten us.

Posts: 573
From: Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 11-02-2011 04:09 PM               

---

I am the present owner of the cover shown in a previous post.

It contains a newspaper cutting "Negro Astronaut Named" and a typed note "Double cancel-autographed by Robert Lawrence,first negro astronaut, and cancelled on his burial date at Arlington National Cemetry (12/12/67) - also cancelled on Moon Landing Day, Cape Canaveral".

I do not agree with Walter's opinion. I have no idea why someone would have the cover cancelled on those days but that has no bearing on the authenticity or otherwise of the signature. I also struggle with the comment that the signature lacks personality and that has some bearing on the authenticity.

If other forum members have examples of Lawrence's signature, please share them with us. Or if anyone knows of examples from auction catalogues, please share them with us.

Is the signature genuine? I hope so but have no way of knowing without seeing it signed in front of me or comparing it to other examples. I disagree strongly that it is not genuine based on cancels and personality.

Posts: 1499
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000

posted 11-02-2011 04:22 PM               

---

I agree that the above shown Lawrence signature may look odd because of the postmarker but it looks similar to other samples I have seen of Lawrence signed that way.

I don't see a problem with the writing style there either.

Posts: 34
From: Canada
Registered: May 2005

posted 11-02-2011 09:10 PM            

---

I'm afraid I most definitely must disagree with Walter as well. I see nothing at all wrong with the Lawrence signature in the cover owned by Hinkler. It is comparable with several other Lawrences I have seen over the past several decades.

As for the question of the stamps and cancels, I'm sure I am not alone in having seen other covers cancelled 'posthumously.' It was very common to have blank envelopes autographed by astronauts with a view to having a cachet and stamp/cancel added at the time of their first flight. Why this particular collector chose to have the cover cancelled for Lawrence's death down the left-hand side and then in the more customary spot later only the original collector can answer, but that should in no detract from the authenticity of the signature.

Posts: 573
From: Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA
Registered: Jan 2000

Posts: 691
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 11-05-2011 03:33 PM               

---

In my opinion the signature which came from an old space auction catalogue is genuine. I remember, I bid on it.

Perhaps I was misled by the poor quality of the picture of Ian's cover.

Posts: 573
From: Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 11-06-2011 03:04 AM               

---

Thank you for your comment Walter.

Your opinion, knowledge and expertise are valued.