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Author
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Topic: 130447801079: Apollo 11 crew autographs
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Russ Still
Member Posts: 535
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-25-2010 10:25 PM
   
I've been off of eBay for several years and just recently got sucked back in. It is nice to see that Armstrong forgeries aren't quite as rampant as they were, but they're still there.I contacted the seller asking about the CoA they advertise that comes with the piece. I made no mention of forgery. The seller responded that it comes from some dealer in NJ. I've contacted the dealer and it will be interesting to find out how they could authenticate an Apollo 11 crew when they advertise that all their authentications are based on witnessing in-person signings. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-26-2010 02:28 AM
Looks like the piece in question has been pulled from eBay: This listing (130447801079) has been removed, or this item is not available. |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 10-26-2010 05:29 AM
I saw it before it was pulled, and I thought it was funny that the little plaque under the photo read "Apollo 11"- WITH the quote marks. Made it look like they were admitting it wasn't a genuine Apollo 11 item. Picture the air quotes finger gesture: "Would you like to buy an 'Apollo 11' signed photo?" |
Russ Still
Member Posts: 535
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-26-2010 08:24 AM
Odd that it got pulled just when I started poking around. The authenticator was said to be (by the seller) autographstore.com. I was really looking forward to publicizing my findings.
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Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 10-26-2010 02:53 PM
It's good to know you're on the case of these various people Russ! |
Russ Still
Member Posts: 535
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-26-2010 10:45 PM
Well, the listing is back including the CoA from autographstore.com saying that they witnessed it being signed in person. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 10-27-2010 07:13 AM
That's some pretty good forging though, the Collins particularly. Even got the left-handed signing. Come to think of it, the Collins might be ok, as might the Aldrin.The Armstrong looks pretty far off though -- you'd think Armstrong's signature, being as simple and elegant as it is, would be easier to forge, but it must be pretty hard for all but the most talented "craftsmen". The COA seems to be pretty carefully worded. It says it was signed in person (not sure how you could sign something not-in-person, but whatever), and it was "obtained exclusively through Autograph Store". I don't see anywhere that they said they witnessed it being signed. Maybe I missed it. Good luck with the crusade, although I suspect the Autograph Store will be digging in their heels. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 10-27-2010 08:23 AM
The Collins signature does look o.k. but the Aldrin and Armstrong are definitely not quite right. As I've said before it's easy to be fooled though if you are not an expert (and I am not!)Should obviously be a much higher price too if it were genuine. |
Russ Still
Member Posts: 535
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-27-2010 10:29 AM
Just made my first phone call to the Autograph Store. Only a voice mail recording. I'll try again later.Meanwhile, if you don't want to muck around thru the ebay listing, I superimposed the sigs on the CoA and saved them here. Here's an abbreviated look at the company's webpage (as of 10/27/10) that further explains their definition of "in person". |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 10-27-2010 10:57 AM
I had looked at their website last night. I did not see them having this signed in their scrapbook page. While I did not spend a lot of time looking at the other signings, I did look at the Quentin Tarantino signing for what looks like a seven year old boy and Paul McCartney signing for an about the same age little girl. So this is their "full time staff" with years of experience. |
spaceflori
Member Posts: 1499
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000
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posted 10-27-2010 12:51 PM
It's hard to believe the Collins is good since it looks like written with the same pen as Aldrin and Armstrong. Usually (not always) the whole piece is bad then. |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 10-27-2010 02:56 PM
Russ, you're not considering resurrecting "Value-Sign" are you?!!!  It was a noble and brave undertaking of years gone by, and I bet few of our current collectors know of it and what its purpose was. |
Russ Still
Member Posts: 535
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-27-2010 03:06 PM
Hehe... Gawd no! That was way too much work. Nah, I'm just being reactionary at the moment. |
MarylandSpace
Member Posts: 1336
From:
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 10-27-2010 03:27 PM
Isn't the B in Buzz bad too? |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 10-27-2010 08:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MarylandSpace:
Isn't the B in Buzz bad too?
That and the other nine letters... |
Rob Joyner
Member Posts: 1308
From: GA, USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 10-27-2010 08:46 PM
I don't think I'd buy anything at all from them after seeing the very obvious grammatical errors on their definition page. |
SpaceSteve
Member Posts: 428
From: San Antonio TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 10-27-2010 09:54 PM
I have to wonder if the certificate of authenticity pictured with the photo is actually authentic; and therefore, if the photo was actually obtained through the Autograph Store. It could be a scam by the seller.I've purchased many Hollywood celebrity signed 8x10s from the Autograph Store over the past three years, via their weekly auctions, and the certificate for the Apollo 11 photo has some aspects that do not match any of the certificates for my photos. The first paragraph is worded differently (the wording is in the wrong order). Also, each and every one of my certificates, without exception, has the hologram ID# printed under the date of the letter. This Apollo 11 certificate does not have that. I'd also be interested to know if there is a hologram on the back of the photo, matching the hologram in the lower right corner of the certificate, as there should be. I have certificates dated Sep 19 and Oct 17, 2010 that have the exact same format as all the others, so I find it odd that this one certificate would have a different format. |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 10-27-2010 10:26 PM
It appears the item has been taken down again. |
Russ Still
Member Posts: 535
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-27-2010 10:49 PM
Yep, seems the seller has once again aborted the auction. I got no answer on the phone so I emailed the Autograph Store today. Anthony Nurse had answered my first email from a couple of days ago so I went to him again. (His name is on the certificate.) This time I mentioned a CoA dated 9/14/10 for an in-person signed Apollo 11 crew. I asked when and where the signing took place. |
Russ Still
Member Posts: 535
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-27-2010 11:34 PM
Ok, Anthony Nurse has replied to my email. With the caveat that no one can be sure from a scan, he admitted that it did appear to be a CoA from his company. Unfortunately, he said they do not keep records of when/where things were signed so the number on the hologram doesn't help. He said he had no further information about any Apollo 11 crew signing and no recollection of when it might have occured. |
spaceflori
Member Posts: 1499
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000
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posted 10-28-2010 12:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Russ Still:
Yep, seems the seller has once again aborted the auction.
No, it was eBay that stopped the auction.If a seller aborts an auction it will still appear and not entirely deleted. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 10-28-2010 10:35 AM
It's baaaaaccccckkkkkk ...140471131147 Opening price now $745. I'm surprised they didn't start out with a $2,499 starting price to make it seem more in line with a reasonable starting price for the sale of an authentic Apollo 11 pic. |
Russ Still
Member Posts: 535
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-28-2010 04:09 PM
I see they've upped the opening bid to $3,300. An attempt to make it look more legit maybe? I pitty the poor sucker who dishes out money on this one.
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HelmetHair
Member Posts: 104
From: Georgia
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 10-28-2010 09:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Russ Still:
he admitted that it did appear to be a CoA from his company. Unfortunately, he said they do not keep records of when/where things were signed so the number on the hologram doesn't help. He said he had no further information about any Apollo 11 crew signing and no recollection of when it might have occured.
Errm, what?The COA is dated 1 month ago-is TAS saying they don't remember validating it? As for the Hologram number not helping, what IS the purpose of the hologram number then? They don't have records going back that far?? They print a number but keep NO record of it? I have no idea if TAS is legit or not, but I'd be wary of someone not being up in arms at someone else faking their COAs, and also of someone who has no info to offer after such a short period of time on such an important/valuable certification. (Edit-So does TAS have NO sales records? Not even of a piece which, if they are as on the ball as they claim, they must have sold within a month for $3500+?) |
SpaceSteve
Member Posts: 428
From: San Antonio TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 10-28-2010 09:40 PM
I emailed the Autograph Store last night, and received this reply from Anthony Nurse:"While this Certificate of Authenticity does look like ours I see what you mean there is no hologram number under the date, I am not sure what to make of this item without seeing it in person and checking the holograms for any tampering as well as identifying the holograms as ours through our exclusive detection system." So, although that answer isn't exactly comforting, I would be highly skeptical of the certificate in the subject auction. |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 10-28-2010 10:57 PM
The starting bid price is now 775. Of course it says no returns accepted. I can see why they would not want it back. |
Russ Still
Member Posts: 535
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-29-2010 12:08 AM
I've been emailing with the seller. She says she bought it in a charity auction from that company last month. She also said she had spoken with Anthony Nurse about the item prior to purchasing it. I don't think I'll publicly speculate on the CoA and the forgotten details of this historic in-person signing. I'll leave that to you who are further removed from it.
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capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 10-29-2010 12:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Russ Still:
I've been emailing with the seller. She says she bought it in a charity auction from that company last month. ...
I hope she got a really good deal on it. In which case, one would think she would wonder why she couold buy something cheap and sell it a month later for a big profit. Seems a bit too good to be true, which of course means ... it probably is. Sad state of affairs, really. |
Russ Still
Member Posts: 535
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-05-2010 02:55 PM
As a follow up on that Apollo 11 item, I got this email from the seller today:Hello Russ Still. Thank you very much for your concerns regarding the astronaut autographs last week. Since you were so concerned with my listing, I wanted to share great news!!! The signed autographs sold for $8595. this past week and was proven to be authentic by a 'real' expert. This was not forgery as you claimed. I was able to sell this rare item to a collector and raise money for the non-for-profit organization at the same time. It was a win-win situation all around... well at least for us. Too bad that your skepticism got the best of you. Also, remember when listing your items on ebay, you need to follow the same rules ebay has put into place by using an 'ebay approved authenticator', not just your own personal letterhead. Thanks again for your help and concerns. Much luck to you in the future. - allthetime1 (ebay seller's ID, he or she never would share his/her real name) |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 11-05-2010 03:42 PM
Nice letter Russ. You have a fan out there. Funny this person doesn't mention the "real expert". If you look at this sellers e-bay page the only feedback is for watches and a filing cabinet. |
HelmetHair
Member Posts: 104
From: Georgia
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 11-05-2010 05:55 PM
*cough* Of course it sold for $8595 *cough*(that latest listing is also showing as "been removed" or "no longer available") |
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