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Author
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Topic: 250436543472: Apollo autographs
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moorouge
Member Posts: 2454
From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted 09-10-2009 03:13 AM
   
What do people make of this item on sale on eBay currently listed at £2390.Item # - 250436543472
Seller - memorabilia-uk-rd222
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StarDome
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posted 09-10-2009 04:25 AM
It says "CERTIFICATION ; JSA / Scott Cornish" wonder if that's true? it could be genuine, but there are far more people on this forum that know a lot more than me that will no doubt verify it for you. |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 09-10-2009 05:44 AM
That piece has been around a couple of times. It was on eBay at least several months ago, and I avoided it because several of the autographs (especially Young) seemed atypical to me. But whoever bid for it sent it to R&R, where it passed muster and was sold (don't know for how much). Now the buyer (or a couple of buyers further along) has it on eBay.Steve |
garymilgrom
Member Posts: 1966
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 09-10-2009 05:47 AM
As Andy says there are experts here who can help you. One thing I've noticed about Jim Lovell's autographs is his fine penmanship - a very flowing, readable style, which the "Lovell" autograph here seems not to display.GM |
StarDome
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posted 09-10-2009 05:52 AM
The seller is an autograph dealer, though not sure if he specialises in or has any knowledge of space related signed items.When I contacted him regarding where and when it was signed he replied with: On this occasion sorry no there are no actual signing details with this. There is certification included from myself and three world renowned autograph dealers whose names if you are a regular autograph buyer you will recognise. So I guess he is going on the previous certifications and COAs.I also agree with Gary, the Lovell looks rather rushed as if it was signed on the move maybe? And the Young and Collins have a rushed look to them also. |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1522
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 09-10-2009 08:08 AM
The fact that the manuscript owner has written "Buzz Aldridge" (sic) doesn't help matters either. |
StarDome
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posted 09-10-2009 08:13 AM
Thats true, the seller tells me when I mentioned that the item seems to have done the rounds before: Historical items like this always do. As a dealer myself this is the type of item that I like to have in my collection anyway. Looks like he may hang onto it then. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-10-2009 09:10 AM
I recall seeing this item. To be honest it looks perfectly OK to me. There is some writing (musical notation) underneath the Young which for some reason he signed over. Not sure I understand the comments on the Lovell not being flowing. This is a very graceful and flowing vintage Lovell sig IMO. There are many authentic Lovell sigs which are not "readable", especially vintage ones. His and most of the other sigs here are rushed. Perhaps the scan here isn't showing the item well enough, but authentic tells in this abound in my opinion and I personally have no doubt that it is authentic. Indeed the original (I'm guessing) owner mislabeled sigs "Buzz Aldridge" and "Lerner" (for Lovell). Is that a strike against authenticity? Look at the big picture - would a skilled forger label an item that way? Perhaps it is not the most aesthetically perfect item out there but I don't concern myself with that when judging authenticity.Best,
Scott |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 09-10-2009 10:03 AM
I agree completely with Scott. These signatures look fine to me and, if anything, just appear to be somewhat rushed... especially the Aldrin and Collins. The Lovell appears perfectly typical of his signature style at the time. His signature has never been particularly legible, as far as I'm concerned. Most of the modern signatures appear to say "Jam Larry." So a few illegible letters in this slightly rushed vintage signature don't bother me at all. The seller fails to note that the item is also signed by Jack King. |
StarDome
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posted 09-10-2009 10:08 AM
Great responses. As for forgers, it's unlikely that this is in any way a fake, perhaps it was signed on the hoof? Maybe someone putting it under the astronauts noses so they did sign it quickly, maybe at a concert or the like, however we all know forgeries do exist and some to a very high standard.A friend of mine bought two first day covers with what he thought were genuine Apollo 11 and Apollo 1 crews signatures, costing him approximately $3k. Turned out they were top notch forgeries as the guy who had done them was a tattoo artist of some repute so they really did look like the real thing. That's partly why this forum exists, so we can help unwary bidders and collectors, it is nice and reassuring to know that amongst us are some of the world's foremost collectors and authenticators within the space field. How fantastic is that for us lay people! |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-10-2009 10:37 AM
Yes, IMO this is almost surely an in-person item. |
fabfivefreddy
Member Posts: 1067
From: Leawood, Kansas USA
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 09-10-2009 10:51 AM
IMO, these are vintage, authentic sigs that are seldom seen. Tahir |
garymilgrom
Member Posts: 1966
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 09-10-2009 11:48 AM
I stand corrected. Thank you gentlemen.GM |
Go4Launch
Member Posts: 542
From: Seminole, Fla.
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 09-10-2009 10:05 PM
The Jack King inscription is also authentic. |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 09-11-2009 05:18 AM
I should say that when I said several of the signatures appeared atypical to me, I meant more "funny looking" than "possibly forged." The Young in particular was weird- now thanks to this thread I know it's because he signed over some musical notation.I do agree that sometimes things the original owner did to autographs (written notes, not-exactly-archival-presentations, etc.) 40 years ago do lend authenticity. I just hope forgers don't pick up on this and we start seeing bad items with notes in another hand "Signed by Niel Armstring at Kenndy Space Center." Steve |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-11-2009 08:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by stsmithva:
I just hope forgers don't pick up on this and we start seeing bad items with notes in another hand "Signed by Niel Armstring at Kenndy Space Center."
Sadly I have seen something similar to that (fake provenance notation) a couple of times. But the autograph itself betrayed it. It can be helpful but it is just another piece of the puzzle. |
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