posted 04-19-2008 05:30 PM               

First, I have many times seen messages here lamenting that a good eBay auction item has ended early. The suspicion usually is that someone contacted the seller and offered a high price to buy it off-eBay. I don't understand why a seller would do this, and not only because it is apparently in violation of eBay rules. Perhaps the seller wants to avoid eBay's completed sales fee, now about 8%. Or they think they are lucky to have found someone willing to pay that high, and they should take advantage of them while they can.

But if at least one potential buyer is interested enough that they are willing to pay that high, why do these sellers assume that there are no other potential buyers who will bid up that high or higher?

The other procedure is the "ten minute rule" enforced by some auction houses. You've probably heard of it, but just in case, it consists of several parts. The first part I rather like: after a certain time, no new bids are allowed on an item. Only those who have already bid may do so again; this prevents sniping, which I don't think is that bad but can certainly be heartbreaking.

Now, if that extra time lasted, say, an hour or less, that would be OK. But the rest of this process just seems crazy to me. All those open items stay open until NO bids have been placed on ANY item for ten minutes. So if you want to buy, say, a nice little Jim Irwin item, but a few minutes after the deadline someone raises their bid on a Joe Dimaggio photo, there is now another ten minutes during which you might be outbid. And if nine minutes later someone raises their bid on an Arthur Miller book, again you have to worry about being outbid. And on and on, sometimes into the pre-dawn hours.

I don't see how this does anything but turn an auction into a brutal endurance test. I guess the auction houses squeeze a few more bids out of buyers, but it seems to me that it's at the cost of exhausting and annoying their buyers. Am I missing something?

posted 04-19-2008 11:38 PM               

On the 10 minute, rule, you're right, I don't understand the way RR implements it that way, either. I like the fact that you have to have a bid in before the extended bidding starts, which prevents sniping. And I agree that after a lot receives no bids for 10 minutes after the extended bidding starts than it should close. But keeping the entire auction open until there are no bids at all for 10 minutes seems crazy to me.

Just last week with RR I was bidding on about 15 items but forgot to check their status when before I went to work (7AM in Tokyo is 6PM the night before for RR), and the auction was closing. During work I realized I had forgotten to check and when I got home (about 7PM Tokyo time, 6AM the day after the auction in RR time), I was shocked to find the auction was still running. That's 8 hours after the 10 minute rule started! I was outbid on every item but quickly placed bids on a Charles Lindbergh book and Police album cover and ended up winning them both. I bet the other bidders on those items went to bed thinking he had won.

So yes, I'm not quite sure RR does it the way they do. Maybe it's a limitation of their auction system.

posted 04-20-2008 04:44 AM               

It tends to increase the prices realised which entices better items for sale which entices better buyers.

I was shot down in flames re: the fact that I had to sit up all night (I am in the UK) with the simple expedient "put your highest bid in". Although I feel happier sitting and bidding they are right, it doesn't actually make any difference with a ten minute rule in place.

posted 04-20-2008 05:09 AM               

Also when attending the auction personally, somebody might be willing to pay 3 times as much as you consider a fair price.

When snipping, nobody should offer a higher amount than he actually is willing to pay for this item.

posted 04-20-2008 08:52 AM               

Now if you place some huge bid to be sure you win something, that top value is what you are willing to pay for the object. What are you a crazy collector or something?

The 10-minute issue as it exists today is a result to lazy programming. It' a snap to have auctions end at a specified time like ebay. It is slightly more difficult to make them remain open for a period after a bid is received. It is more difficult from that to make the timing item-specific. This latter condition is probably what the auction houses wanted, but did not get. After seeing that it keeps the whole auction open for hours potentially, I bet they have come to like it. I've done phone auctions where the whole auction stays open until whatever period of time without a bid. I guess the auctioneer thinks, that if he has to stay up that late ever lot is available.

posted 04-21-2008 01:00 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by benguttery:
Sniping is a fact of life.

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I don't AT ALL like R&R's implementation. I've not seen a single positive comment...

posted 04-21-2008 02:12 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by benguttery:
The 10-minute issue as it exists today is a result to lazy programming. It' a snap to have auctions end at a specified time like ebay. It is slightly more difficult to make them remain open for a period after a bid is received. It is more difficult from that to make the timing item-specific.

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It appears that Astro Auction has no difficulty in implementing a 10-minute rule that is specific for each item. If an auction service that is essentially free and doesn't profit from sales on their own site can bother to program their software in this manner, I have to imagine that R&R and eBay could do the same if they wanted to (especially considering they take hefty commissions on items sold).

posted 04-21-2008 03:16 PM               

I have lost items on eBay to snipers when I didn't closely monitor the bidding at the close of the auction. I placed my proxy bid at what seemed a reasonable maximum only to find that I lost by a few dollars with only a few seconds left to bid. It was disappointing to say the least.

The software we started with had an option for extending auctions when the last bid was placed within the last 10 minutes. It didn't quite work, but we fixed it so the results would be predictable. During the extended bidding period, anyone may place bids.

We did this to make the auctions a bit more like a live auction where bidding continues until there are no more bids on the item. We felt this was more fair for both the bidders and the sellers.

It comes down to developing a bidding strategy that takes advantage of the auction rules. You'll need quite a different strategy to win an item on eBay as compared to AA.

In most cases, if you really want the item, you'll need to closely monitor the auction as it closes. The "ten minute rule" just gives you a bit more time to respond to a competitive bid. We still recommend placing your bid at the maximum you are willing to pay for the item. Of course, as bidding progresses that amount could change.

BTW, AA is still free for both buyers and sellers. There's no last minute math to do. What you bid is what you pay, except for the possible addition of shipping charges by the seller.

I have one more comment on ending auctions early. AA sellers may end their auctions early or delete the auction only before any bids have been placed. Once bids have been placed, only the auction administrator can end the auction early or delete the auction all together. The distinction being that ending the auction early would award the item to the then high bidder. Sellers ending an auction early would be able to re-list the item easily.

Auctions are ended early or deleted by the auction administrator only when there is clearly a mistake in the description of the item, or if the authenticity of the item has been questioned.

I'll be watching this thread for a while for any good ideas or suggestions that may help us improve AA.