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Author
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Topic: Autograph dealer Dave Davis
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mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 03-12-2008 01:22 PM
   
Does anyone know if the Dave Davis that runs this website is the same Dave Davis that periodically posts here on cS? At first glance, it would appear to be so (since they both share Northbrook, Illinois as their place of residence).There are a great number of signatures on this website that, in my personal opinion, appear to be suspect... some of the suspicious clues are celebrities who apparently can't spell their own names, deceased musicians (prior to 1980) signing in silver sharpie, celebrities signing modern glossies with signature styles they haven't used in 30+ years, and a great deal of the signatures looking very shaky in general (and possibly all done by the same hand). While I don't currently see any astronaut autographs on the site, I personally feel one should adopt a "buyer-beware" approach in the event astronaut signatures are listed on this site in the future. If this is a different Dave Davis than that one who posts here, then it would be good to acknowledge that they are two different people... lest one get the impression that one of our own is selling so many questionable-looking signatures. |
Space-ace
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posted 03-12-2008 01:51 PM
Wow, I see what you mean. The sports signatures are horrible, clearly a bunch of forgeries all around. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 03-12-2008 02:30 PM
Very troubling. Is this you, Dave?By the way, I like the "Hilary Rodham Clinton" autograph ("Hillary" spelled with one "l"). |
cddfspace
Member Posts: 609
From: Morris County, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 03-12-2008 02:30 PM
Take a look at the Colin Powell- the "autograph" looks different then the preprint on the same photo! |
Spacepsycho
Member Posts: 818
From: Huntington Beach, Calif.
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 03-12-2008 04:10 PM
Having worked on "Back to the Future" and many other movies and TV shows in the 80's while at Universal Studios, the autographs "Dave" is selling are not authentic. The Woody Allen and Diane Keaton sigs are not authentic, at least one of the Russell Crowes are forged, as are the Eddie Murphy signatures, Tom Hanks, Robert Redford, Paul Newman (the Neil Armstrong of movie autographs), Bill Murray, Rodney Dangerfield, Robert DiNero, Joe Pesci, Sharon Stone, Clark Gable (my favorite) and way too many others to post here. It's obvious that whoever's website this is, they are the most unskilled forgers out there and anyone with 2 eyes and 2 brain cells can compare authentic autographs, then see that the vast majority of those on Dave Davis's website are poorly done forgeries. This is absolutely a case of buyer beware and you're better off giving your money to a worthy charity and take the deduction, so at least you'll get something for your money. Too bad Dave Davis isn't forging any Neil Armstrongs, because I need a few extras for the collection. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 03-12-2008 04:36 PM
Update: The Dave Davis of the autograph-selling website under discussion is apparently the same Dave Davis who posts on this website.
His apparent MySpace page (the page links to the email address he uses on cS) links to the autograph selling website. |
mensclub10
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posted 03-12-2008 05:15 PM
Hi Everyone! Sorry to disappoint some of you but the Dave Davis you mention on this thread is not me.I think the forgery of autographs is the most sickening thing a person could do. They are close to ruining many autograph hobbies including ours. Luckily we have people in our group who look out for us. I'm sure that without them we would be stuck with many worthless signed items. Ebay is the worst and from what I read, 88% of the autographs offered are forgeries. With the abundance of forgeries in our hobby I never purchase anything without having Bob, Ken, Tahir and several others who are kind enough to check them out. My hobby is astronaut signatures and I don't know one thing about any other type of autographs except a collection of several Chicago sports autographs that I obtained with my children during the 80s and 90's. I was fortunate to meet Michael Jordan several times. I happen to live near where they practiced from 1986 to 1995. He signed a several items for me including a photo I took of him with my two children. He also signed a couple basketballs for me including a 1990-91 team ball (their first championship). We developed a sort of friendship because saw each other since 1987 until his retirement. My daughter Kim used to play with his two sons (Marcus and Jeffrey) outside the Multiplex (their workout facility before they built the Berto Center).
I also met Walter Payton several times. He owned a sports bar called Studebakers (among several other places). He always brought in a sports figure for Monday Night Football and they would signed autographs. I also developed a friendship with Walter and even helped him when he would sign items on Monday night. I own a NFL football with a beautiful silver signature. He also signed a copy of his first appearance on a Sports Illustrated cover. Michael Jordan and Walter Payton were just great to me and my family. They gave us memorable experiences which we will never forget. One more hobby of mine I forgot to mention is my collection of historical newspapers. They are framed and hanging on my walls. I have just about every historical moment in the 20th century. I just love history. Sorry about getting off track but believe me I am not the Dave Davis you are talking about. Never assume before you ask! Dave |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-12-2008 05:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mensclub10:
Never assume before you ask!
Dave, if you don't mind me asking then, are you aware of pages such as this that list your e-mail address associated with the link to davessignedphotos.com? |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 03-12-2008 05:28 PM
Wow, Robert, I think the link you found and the earlier MySpace connection pretty much says it all IMO. Unbelievable. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 03-12-2008 05:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mensclub10:
My hobby is astronaut signatures and I don't know one thing about any other type of autographs
Actually, I was going to suggest that whoever forged those photos on your website apparently didn't know anything about autographs either. Good luck getting people to help you authenticate astronaut autographs in the future. |
CAC
Member Posts: 73
From: Maumelle, Arkansas, USA
Registered: Jun 2006
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posted 03-12-2008 05:49 PM
Mmmm. This is sad. I sort of feel like I did when I heard about Gov. Spitzer. You just wonder why. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-12-2008 06:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
Does anyone know if the Dave Davis that runs this website is the same Dave Davis that periodically posts here on cS?
Mark, how did you first learn of the website in question? Where did you find it? |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 03-12-2008 06:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Mark, how did you first learn of the website in question? Where did you find it?
Another collector alerted me to this website off-list. He suggested this was perhaps the same Dave Davis that collects astronaut autographs and posts here on cS. At the time, I didn't ask how he discovered the website, but I will ask him about it. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 03-12-2008 06:28 PM
Robert, Mark may have learned about that site from me. A few days ago I visited the My Space page which links to Dave Davis' email (the same email address he has used for cS). There was a new link to this autograph-selling website, a site which interestingly offered forged signed photos the same or similar to what had been offered under a now suspended eBay account connected to Davis: "mysignedpics". I had confronted Davis a few months ago about the poor political forgeries being sold under the eBay user ID "mysignedpics". I contacted Davis about that issue directly by email - I did not attempt to write him via eBay. Soon after, the mysignedpics eBay account quit selling the political forgeries. It is now suspended, for reasons unknown to me. Upon discovering this www.davessignedphotos.com website the other day, naturally I was alarmed. I wrote a few friends to let them know what I had found. Mark was one of them. FWIW, I did not ask Mark to start this thread, nor did I even know he would start this thread or post about it at all on cS, but I am happy he did. I believe I will probably speak for many collectors when I say THANK YOU, MARK. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 03-12-2008 06:38 PM
Scott is correct. We had a discussion about this off-list. If anyone deserves the credit for finding out about this website, it is Scott. Nothing gets past his eagle eye!I felt the matter needed an airing on cS and, as impatient as I am, I posted to this thread before talking it over further with Scott. If anything, I was looking for a plausible explanation from Dave to explain this matter away. Since then, the two links that Robert and Scott uncovered pretty much sealed the deal. It's a sad day, really, when one of the our own is involved in such matters. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-12-2008 06:40 PM
Well, this is truly unfortunate. Dave has been a member (in good standing) of cS for six years and in that time has made nearly 700 posts. I don't remember ever receiving a complaint or even a suggestion of a problem until this afternoon.As many know, I'm not one to jump to conclusions, but I don't see how I have any choice but to suspend Dave's account. Dave, I'm leaving your account active through the end of the day, after which it will be closed. If you feel you are being unfairly treated, e-mail me. A reminder to readers: Despite what was learned in this thread, the rules still apply and posts that attack Dave (or any other member) will be removed. I think we can remain civil with each other while discussing the problem at hand. |
Spacepsycho
Member Posts: 818
From: Huntington Beach, Calif.
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 03-12-2008 06:54 PM
Has anyone besides me, made a copy of Dave's website to show "everyone" who might be interested in seeing the evidence? I'm also thinking that people on Dave's customer list, would be very interested in obtaining a refund for their "autographed" material, if it's found to be bogus. |
MScherzi
Member Posts: 80
From: California
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 03-12-2008 07:43 PM
I have been following this discussion on the Astronauts list, and mentioned some of the problem items, as well as being unable to find any astronaut signed photos on the site.I just received an email from Dan because of this post. At the time I had not ventured any opinion as to WHO was selling, just that items were bad, low-priced if real (3 Beatles igned pic for $399, Bobby Kennedy for $189, etc), and that whomever owned it used the privacy services at NetSol so we could not see the owner. To be fair, I do the same to avoid the spam, email, and sales calls for my domains myself. After being copied on this innocent plea I went to the site that Robert found, and registered. You have to respond to your registration email to be able to post. Then when you post your classified you have to provide an email address for verification. What follows is from the posting process: quote:
After submitting an ad, you will receive an email with instructions on how to edit or delete your post. Your email address is required for this functionality, and will not be used for any other purpose. - Show this email address as my contact information
- Show an anonymized email address
- Do not show any email address (include contact info in your ad, or check replies on Topix)
Now - this shows the mensclub email, not a 'anonymized' email, and it is NOT in the body of the ad. So it looks like the poster either is Mr. Davis, or has hacked his AOL email address. They would have to do so to register (since the registration email states: quote:
Please complete the signup process as soon as possible. You have two days before the link in this email expires.-The Topix Team P.S. If you did not attempt to sign up with Topix recently, please disregard this mail.
Whomever created this account had to respond not only to the origination email, but also the classified ad email.And it sure seems like an awful lot of work to frame someone. If I was going to forge autographs and spend the time and money to register and create multiple sites I'd want the cash. Just my thoughts, I suggest everyone does their own research and makes up their own mind. |
MScherzi
Member Posts: 80
From: California
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 03-12-2008 08:04 PM
Well, I found out that the registered verified owner of the "davessignedphotos.com" website is:David Davis
xxxxxxx Bxxxxxxx Drive
Northbrook IL 60062 This is from the "SafeSite" verification from Network Solutions. Looks like someone named David Davis with the above address used a credit card with the above billing address to pay for their registration and web services.
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Spacepsycho
Member Posts: 818
From: Huntington Beach, Calif.
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 03-12-2008 08:15 PM
Matt, I think it's pretty obvious that nobody "hacked" Dave's MySpace page or his website or framed Dave, to post forged autographs for sale. There's not a lot of doubt about this.What I find interesting is that there is no email contact for Dave on davessignedphotos.com, only a PO Box to send snail mail. However, it's plain as the nose on our faces that Dave Davis (mensclub10), is the very same Dave Davis, who's selling hundreds of poorly forged photos on his website. If anyone feels compelled to take this issue further, you can file a complaint with the FBI through their Internet Crime website. The more complaints they receive, the more likely they are to open an immediate investigation. The FBI has been very diligent and aggressive in prosecuting online sites that deal in fraudulent autographs. These forgery "experts" are elusive, so when one is caught red handed, law enforcement will open an investigation ASAP. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 03-12-2008 09:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Spacepsycho:
Has anyone besides me, made a copy of Dave's website to show "everyone" who might be interested in seeing the evidence?
Ray - that is an excellent idea! |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 03-12-2008 09:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MScherzi:
Looks like someone named David Davis with the above address used a credit card with the above billing address to pay for their registration and web services.
For your information, I have confirmed with Matt that the full address he refers to above matches the mailing address Dave Davis sent me via email (regarding an unrelated matter) a few months ago.Thank you for your research Matt. |
Spacepsycho
Member Posts: 818
From: Huntington Beach, Calif.
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 03-12-2008 09:56 PM
Why don't we all take a section of the website to copy, so that way we'll all have access to the forged material. I have a feeling that the site will be offline shortly, so the faster the forgeries are copied, the better chance of presenting law enforcement with this evidence. I'll do the movies section. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-12-2008 10:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Spacepsycho:
Why don't we all take a section of the website to copy, so that way we'll all have access to the forged material.
Since the website in question did not contain a section for space autographs, I would suggest those who desire to assist with Ray's suggested effort, contact him via e-mail. Thank you. |
machbusterman
Member Posts: 1778
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004
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posted 03-13-2008 03:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Scott:
His apparent MySpace page (the page links to the email address he uses on cS) links to the autograph selling website.
Not any more it would seem... there is no mention anymore. Last log-in was 3/13/2008 which would lead one to assume that the page has been edited so as to remove any links to the Autograph dealer website. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 03-13-2008 03:11 AM
Derek - The mention is actually still there - see on the right under "David's Latest Blog Entry", where it says "Signed Photos For Sale! (view more)".UPDATE: Though it was still there at the time I made the above comment, it is now gone. As Derek notes, the Last Login notation on the left has changed this morning from "Last Login: 3/8/2008" to "Last Login: 3/13/2008". |
Jurg Bolli
Member Posts: 977
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-13-2008 09:42 AM
I bought a Slayton WSS from Dave some time ago, and I was very happy with the transaction.But it is a sad day when stuff like this comes to light. I feel that Robert handles this very well, and thanks to the detective work of the others. |
MScherzi
Member Posts: 80
From: California
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 03-13-2008 09:43 AM
Look like the person who operates these sites must be on cS. Suspicious minds want to know.Also, a Yahoo search on the email name found a ton of high-value auctions on the Yahoo Auctions web site that they closed last summer.
Looks like the email address was hacked a long time ago. LOL! |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 03-13-2008 10:21 AM
Here is one example of one of his old Yahoo auctions. The signature is absolutely horrid-looking. Anyway, everything is here to identify who the seller is...name, address, e-mail, etc. Now look at this page to see there very same photo, albeit with a different signature. If there was any remaining doubt about who this was, the Yahoo auction site clears it all up. As you can see, payment was asked to be directed to Dave's Paypal account and/or Dave's physical mailing address. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 03-13-2008 11:05 AM
Wow, Mark! Good work. For your information, the physical address on this Yahoo auction page you posted (along with the address discovered by Matt) perfectly matches cS Dave Davis' home address (street number, street name, everything) which Davis sent me a few months ago - as if any more evidence is needed at this point.Hmm... I think I know what's happening: I'll bet someone hacked cS Dave Davis' Yahoo selling account and wants payment sent to cS Dave Davis' home address. Then the culprit will drive by cS Dave Davis' house every afternoon and steal the mail from his mailbox. Yeah, that's the ticket. Give me a BREAK. By the way, I like the name of the high bidder on this auction: "craporium". How fitting. Interesting you found the same Paul McCartney image on another site, Mark. By the way, my personal suspicions were first raised when I saw that Davis' mysignedpics eBay user ID had sold a couple of bad forgeries (in one case JFK, Jr. and in the other case George W. Bush) and then within a couple of weeks used the mysignedpics account to bid on and win unsigned versions of those exact same photos. Now it's a free country of course and people can buy whatever eBay item they wish, but it sure made me wonder ... |
Spacepsycho
Member Posts: 818
From: Huntington Beach, Calif.
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 03-13-2008 11:22 AM
There's more than enough evidence linking Dave Davis (mensclub10) to all of these internet websites that specialize in forged autographs. I don't know what's funnier, Dave Davis telling everyone, that there's another Dave Davis, who happens to be living on his street in Northbrook, Ill. Who also happens to also be a collector of autographs in the space field, with links to Dave's email & home address? This "OTHER" Dave Davis (probably his evil twin) or a split personality, like what happened to Capt. Kirk when the transporter malfunctioned (thanks again Scotty), has all of Dave's info linked to the fraudulent Yahoo auction of the very poorly done Paul McCartney. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 03-13-2008 01:15 PM
In the interest of being fair, I should point out that I don't see any evidence of Dave knowingly selling forged astronaut signatures. So far, at least, it appears the forgeries were focused on the non-astronaut market (perhaps with the knowledge that people like Scott do a good job of policing the space signatures market). Looking at his selling history on Astro Auction (under the ID duvas1952), it appears his goods there are/were legit. He currently has three active auctions at AA. So if people here have purchased astronaut goods from Dave, it's quite possible the items were legit. However, one may wish to seek a second opinion regardless just to be certain...especially for any high dollar items. |
manilajim
Member Posts: 256
From: Bergenfield, NJ USA
Registered: May 2000
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posted 03-13-2008 01:24 PM
Hi gang, I checked out Dave's website and found a wonderful dual-signed picture of Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky! It's still for sale if anyone is interested. How soon before he offers a dual signed photo of Elliot Spitzer and "Kristin"? |
liebeek
Member Posts: 247
From: the netherlands
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted 03-13-2008 01:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Spacepsycho:
I don't know what's funnier...
I don't know what is funny about all this. Apparently I entered a hobby that resembles the underworld. No honour left it seems. I am a teacher by profession and I discuss hobbies with my pupils all the time. I try to drown them in values we were taught as children but sometimes it's getting harder and harder considering grown-up behaviour. Even this hobby for mainly grown-up men is turning into a BEWARE pastime. Where is the romance in that?I talked to Russ Still via e-mail and I enjoyed his account of having witnessed "the beast" of Apollo 17 lift-off into space and people could read the newspaper at night because of the bright light, now there's some romance for you. I prefer telling my pupils these stories so let's all try to be honourable and civil to each other and ban people who try to turn this beautiful nostalgia into a real beast! A warm greeting from Holland to all real space-fans! |
Andy McCulley
Member Posts: 245
From: Lansdale, PA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 03-13-2008 02:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
In the interest of being fair, I should point out that I don't see any evidence of Dave knowingly selling forged astronaut signatures.
I have occasionally considered the possibility that all a forger had to do was read the posts describing how the good guys can tell forgeries from genuine. Without casting dispersions on Mr. Davis, perhaps he just hasn't read enough posts. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 03-13-2008 03:25 PM
If you look at the signatures of modern 'celebrities' most of them appear to be simple child-like squiggles.This makes it absurdly easy for amateur forgers to offer similar-looking squiggles for a few tens or hundreds of dollars. By contrast, most vintage astronaut signatures tend to be carefully formed and therefore much more difficult to forge convincingly. It seems likely that Dave's impressive astronaut signature collection was largely funded by the sale of modern celebrity autograph forgeries. |
Dwight
Member Posts: 576
From: Germany
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted 03-13-2008 05:03 PM
Wow! Hey, given the steady decline of legitimate autographs being sold, perhaps I have the answer which benefits serious collector and scumbag forger in one masterful stroke.What is the consensus amongst cSers of a website which openly and knowingly sells nothing but forged signatures? Furthermore such sigs would be clearly attorney certified forgeries with index card/litho/cleverly faked original NASA print stamped in very obvious and aesthetically annoying manner highlighting the point? I think it could be the beginning of a new aspect to collecting. Instead of asking fellow cSers if one has a forgery, the posts would be more so queries as to who has recently forked out the most money for the best forgery! On top of that, identity theft incursions notwithstanding, I can't see the moral dilemma either! I mean, dodgy dealers would no longer need to feign surprise at having their faked goods revealed as such. Buyers would never need feel shafted... heck maybe once in awhile perhaps a hitherto unknown original legit sig may surface amidst the crud, you know for a brief dabble down memory lane. Imagine the complete turn of the tables. The mind boggles. It appears more and more of us have unknown faked gems in our collection. I say give those collectibles a voice and a creative outlet. Let's drive those idealistic dealers who still cling to antiquated terms like "provenance" and "legitimacy" into the underworld of what is rapidly becoming a seriously filthy and disgraced art form. Viv la Forgerie. And before you think I am serious, let me add to my concerns highlighted in my original "The sorry state of autograph collecting" post a few months back that this recent chain of events has hammered another secure nail into the lid covering my once free flowing disposable income for autographs. Any of you knowingly passing forged autographs in the pursuit of the almighty buck deserve all the strife you eventually get yourselves in. It is so pathetic I have to laugh. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-13-2008 09:11 PM
This seems like a good place to close the topic. This evening I had to roll the thread back, as a result of it trailing off-topic and members turning on each other. Usually, that is a good indicator that there really isn't anything more to add. |
Topic Closed
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