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Author
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Topic: Opinions and Advice
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denem
Member Posts: 141
From: Columbia, SC, USA
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 02-18-2004 04:29 PM
   
As I have read the opinions and advice column of Collectspace , I've come up with some personal conclusions. First of all, if a signature looks questionable, then why own it? Even if the signature IS authentic, yet a poor example, why own it? ....especially when everyone will always question it and possibly form negative opinions about your items. Second of all, please make sure you have your autopen list next to your computer (as I do). I have seen Armstrong autopens reach as much as 265$. Just recently, (about a week ago), I saw an Ed White reach 142$. Granted, autopens DO have value....but just ask yourself, How much would I pay for an autopen? Lastly, if you gotta have an Armstrong sig, then make sure it's a limited edition print or inscribed with more writing than just a signature alone. (Inscriptions don't guarantee authenticity but they help ALOT.)Do some studying before you invest a few hundred dollars or more. And remember, there are more fake Armstrongs out there then real ones. Just my thoughts..... Dennis |
mensclub10@aol.com
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posted 02-18-2004 07:45 PM
What I do not understand is why is there such a difference in value between an unpersonalized Armstrong and one that is personalized? Prices seem to be running two to three times the value without personalization. It is still his signature, assuming it is authentic. Why such a large price difference? There seems to be a sector of our group that would never consider owning personalized photos, esp. Armstrong. I own a personalized Armstrong that I purchased from Gerry M. and it is nice and bold yet it's value is 1/3 of the price of an unpersonalized Armstrong litho. Seems very odd to me. Dave |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 02-18-2004 08:12 PM
These 2 posts are a couple of the best ones I've read in a long time.I will never be in the group that values unpersonalized over personalized. To each his own, but I just don't get the logic. For me, I value personalized over unpersonalized, yes even if it's made out to "Chester Drinkwater". But the thing I value most is authentic over fake - everything else takes a back seat. |
denem
Member Posts: 141
From: Columbia, SC, USA
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 02-18-2004 10:52 PM
My reasoning behind my preference for a personalized Armstrong is this: most of the Armstrong forgeries are easy to spot IMO but SOME Armstrong forgeries are very clever and would have escaped me had it not been for some fellow-listmembers that really knew their stuff. When they showed me what to look for, I was stunned. Some of the forgeries are just that good..........soooooooo, in order to steer 100% clear of the forgeries, I resort to the personalized items. And , as I said before, personalized doesn't guarantee authenticity but it certainly helps. Dennis |
JasonB
Member Posts: 1091
From:
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 02-19-2004 08:25 AM
I don't like personalizations simply because I don't know the people. If I were friends with someone I would like it, but to have someone I've never met or don't know write something to me just seems a bit dishonest. Sometimes I don't mind having one from someone I really like, but it obviously doesn't mean so much when you don't know them. Most people want unpersonalized more because most collectors want "the perfect item". |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 02-19-2004 08:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by JasonB:
Most people want unpersonalized more because most collectors want "the perfect item".
That's fine if people want unpersonalized as their preference, as long as they realize that the most important trait a perfect item has is "authentic". |
fabfivefreddy
Member Posts: 1067
From: Leawood, Kansas USA
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 02-20-2004 10:19 PM
I have often stated here that the price difference for uninscribed vs inscribed tends to equalize once a celebrity is deceased. Then, the writing itself becomes valuable (the more the better). Marilyn Monroe items, Kennedy items, etc. are worth more inscribed on photos. This is because they are easier to authenticate and because a lot of handwriting adds pizzaz to the items. I prefer inscribed myself.
Tahir |
Richard
New Member Posts: 5
From: Morrisonville, New York USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted 02-23-2004 03:02 PM
Tahir,I was wondering about the validity of that statement. I've read your posts before concerning this, but just 2 weeks on Antique Roadshow, the appraisor gave a discussion about how personalizations decrease the value of the piece. Furthermore, the discussion centered on "deceased" celebrities. They further stated that the value always decreased, however it was less so with very rare signatures. It seems, therefore, there are differing views on this.
[This message has been edited by Richard (edited February 23, 2004).] |
fabfivefreddy
Member Posts: 1067
From: Leawood, Kansas USA
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 02-23-2004 06:59 PM
I encourage you to look at actual auction results from places like RRAuction.com or Alexautographs.com.
These sites show past auction results. I also encourage you to read the Sanders Price Guide for Autographs and anything written by Charles Hamilton.
Compare prices for actual sold items by Marilyn Monroe, The Beatles, President Kennedy, Albert Einstein, etc.
Tahir |
mensclub10@aol.com
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posted 02-24-2004 10:15 AM
<b> Most people want unpersonalized more because most collectors want "the perfect item".[/b][/QUOTE]This is what amazes me. When you look at a Neil Armstrong signed photo-litho, if he did write a personalization before signing it, it would seem to me to ADD credence to the whole piece. 99 percent of the time you would be able to match the personalization with the signature which just embelishs the signature. The astronomical price difference between the two just leaves my head shaking. And it's not only Armstrong where we find this. This seems to happen to any astronaut signed item. Recently an Apollo 13 (Swigert) was auctioned in AstroAuctions. It went for over $4000.00. About a month ago, Ed K. from our group had a personalized Apollo 13 (Swigert) that didn't get a bid at $1900.00. Doesn't make sense! Getting back to "The perfect item", perfect to me is the authenticity not the unpersonalization! I do notice that with the scarcity of a certain piece, like my Bill Anders signed NASA numbered spacesuit glossy I bought from Donnis Willis, it wouldn't matter so much because the item is so scare. I do hope that this attitude changes in the future. Maybe there is just so many Armstrongs out there that people do have a choice and right now they are choosing unpersonaized. Dave [This message has been edited by mensclub10@aol.com (edited February 24, 2004).] [This message has been edited by mensclub10@aol.com (edited February 24, 2004).] |
Richard
New Member Posts: 5
From: Morrisonville, New York USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted 02-24-2004 12:04 PM
I never see my preference changing ever. It's is not that I am an "elitist", it is just that I only want items personalized to me. If that can not be offered, then I want unpersonalized pieces. I personally feel that a personalization to another person makes the peice worthless to me. This is regardless of the price. In fact, I would much rather have a John Glenn unpersonalized or personalized to me, than an Armstrong personalized to a stranger. I collect with the thought that I may one day frame and exhibit my piece. I feel that if it was personalized to a stranger, I would spend more time thinking about who this stranger was rather than looking at the autograph. It's kind of like buying a very nice frame in a shop. Yes, it looks nice, but I'm not going to set it out on my desk and leave magazine picture which was included with it in place. Yes, I know with more hard core autograph collectors, they view this differently. It may be that they are more focused on obtaining a "complete set." I really don't know. I do wish I felt differently, however, it would make items more readily accessible.
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-24-2004 12:12 PM
Richard, I am curious, as I have considered the same: would you / do you collect autographs that are made out to "Richard" but were not to you specifically? I purchased an Irwin lithograph inscribed to "Robert". I haven't displayed it as yet, as I am still debating the ethics of letting others who see the piece but for various reasons might not have me there to explain that the piece was not inscribed to myself. |
Richard
New Member Posts: 5
From: Morrisonville, New York USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted 02-24-2004 12:20 PM
Robert,The pieces that I have are personalized with both my first and last names. The only piece that I have that is autographed to just "Richard" is a book. No, I wouldn't display a piece that was autogrpahed to just "Richard" if it wasn't to me (there wouldn't be any story behind it). However, I would not be against buying a piece that was autographed to just "Richard." |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 02-24-2004 12:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Richard:
I personally feel that a personalization to another person makes the peice worthless to me. This is regardless of the price.
Richard,
If you ever obtain an Abraham Lincoln ALS on Executive Mansion stationery made out to a "Gen. Grant", I agree with you. That would be worthless. Send it to me and I'll dispose of it for you at no charge.
Scott |
Richard
New Member Posts: 5
From: Morrisonville, New York USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted 02-24-2004 01:12 PM
Scott,I think you forgot about my previous post concerning personalizations of historical significance. I discussed my opinion of those in great detail earlier and because of time, will not repeat it now. The example you just posted has no relationship to what I was discussing here. I feel that the examples we are discussing are in relation to personalizations to normal everyday people. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 02-24-2004 01:17 PM
Richard,
OK, then how about this?: How is a personalized autograph by Abraham Lincoln to a nobody any different than one from Neil Armstrong to a nobody? I think almost everyone would want the Abraham Lincoln that had extra handwriting. Why not with Neil Armstrong? I strongly believe in the future that personalized, inscribed Armstrong's will have a premium. |
Richard
New Member Posts: 5
From: Morrisonville, New York USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted 02-24-2004 02:07 PM
Knowing that Lincoln died 140 years ago makes a difference. There is noway that anyone alive could have known him, nor could my immediate ancestors either. When you get to more recent "celebrities" such as Monroe, etc, I still would not want a personalized photo to a stranger. Although in the case of Monroe I could have never been alive to know her. However, she is still recent enough that there are many still alive from her time. I believe this makes a difference. I still would not want a personalized photo to a stranger. However, a personalized photo to my father, that would be a different story. Otherwise, I would only be in the market for an unpersonalized one. Furthermore, when you think of people in the distant past, there were not such things as "personalized photos." I may be wrong, but I don't think there are many 8X10 personalized glossies of Lincoln out there. Instead, with such figures, you usually deal with letters, deeds, etc. These not only have the signature, but also have some historical significance or some historical information. This is the reason why just plain letters from the civil war are collected and achieve high prices, while noone would pay a dime for a letter from my mother to me. This is much different than an 8X10 glossy signed "to Joe Blow, Best wishes..." I just don't find much historical significance in those items. |
Richard
New Member Posts: 5
From: Morrisonville, New York USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted 02-25-2004 04:05 PM
Scott,No rebuttal? |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 02-25-2004 08:11 PM
All I can say is that's your preference, Richard. I like as much handwriting as possible. |
Richard
New Member Posts: 5
From: Morrisonville, New York USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted 02-26-2004 09:43 AM
Scott,After much thought, I have come to the conclusion that you do make a good point, especially with the Collin's signing coming up where he was going to charge $25 a word. More words may actually be more desirable. It may hold true that in the future, your collection will be worth more because of the personalizations. However, for right now, I will continue with the nonpersonalized pieces. I guess that it does just comes down to preference. |
mensclub10@aol.com
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posted 02-26-2004 11:34 AM
Richard, remember that there is a difference between personalizations and inscriptions. Inscriptions do not devalue an autograph piece but actually increase it's value. If Collins writes underneath his signature Apollo 11, July 16-24, 1969, that would make it more valuable than just a signature. However, if he wrote To Fred, before his signature, that would devalue it. The problem we face is that it should not matter if an astronaut personalizes a photo because it is still his signature and the only thing that should count is it's authenticity! Sadly that doesn't seem the case in today's market. |
fabfivefreddy
Member Posts: 1067
From: Leawood, Kansas USA
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 02-26-2004 11:37 PM
I think this discussion also depends on collecting backgrounds. I also collect letters and documents. For example, a Kennedy letter or memorandum that has routine content is still interesting to me because it was his thoughts on that day (however insignificant). A princess Diana x-mas card made out to a stranger is still interesting to me because SHE sent it and wrote it.
Space collecting has really cool images which are spectacular even without the signatures on them. Currently collectors seem to dream about crew photos and lunar photos. Maybe that is why I don't mind (and even prefer) personalized items. If Armstrong writes a note, letter, or inscription on a photo to ANYONE, I love the handwriting and want as much of it as I can get!
Tahir |
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