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Author
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Topic: Bad Expensive Item From Reputable Dealer?
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chet
Member Posts: 1506
From: Beverly Hills, Calif.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 10-03-2003 11:23 PM
   
Came across this really bad Armstrong/Collins item on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2194791038 The seller claims experience in signed documents for 25 years, and membership in The Manuscript Society, the
Universal Autograph Collectors Club and
The International Autograph Dealers Alliance.
(Bad enough that he/she has up on Ebay such an outstandingly poor forgery in the first place - - makes you wonder what such touted credentials are worth). I dropped them the following message:
"I am an avid space collector and regret to inform you that the odds of your Ebay item #2194791038
being authentically signed by Armstrong and Collins are virtually nil.
While the Collins may bear some resemblance to his real signature, the Armstrong is clearly not anything like his
actual autograph. I realize reputable autograph dealers can sometimes make mistakes; it is my desire to bring this item to your attention so you may re-evaluate it and determine whether it is something you want to present
on Ebay as something that has passed your scrutiny". I'll share the response, if there is one. -chet [This message has been edited by chet (edited October 04, 2003).] |
dseuss
New Member Posts:
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posted 10-03-2003 11:50 PM
This dealer has been around for quite a while and sells many items at discounted prices. What I have come to realize is that many of the autographs sold have minor to major flaws. The flaws are usually noted in the ads, but are sometimes much worse than the description indicates. I purchased an Armstrong photo a number of years ago from this dealer. It was not cheap, but it was a shot I was looking for. The signature looked fine in the ad, but upon closer inspection--and the consensus of several others--it turned out to be either a great forgery(which would not have been common at the time) or an early autopen. I called the dealer who indicated that he was absolutely sure it was a genuine Armstrong autograph. While he only slightly hesitated to refund my purchase, I was told that there were at least several others that wanted this very desirable photo and he was going to sell it to one of them for significantly more since he had underestimated the demand for this picture. Needless to say, I have not purchased from that dealer since. In my opinion, I suspect that this is an item he could not sell through his normal advertisement and Ebay is a possible way to unload it--just my opinion, but I don't think he'll sell it there, either. |
Joe Davies
Member Posts: 258
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 10-04-2003 04:38 AM
I've never purchased from this dealer so would be unfair to comment further, except to say a generality that I always feel that the length of a seller's credentials is inversely proportional to their knowledge of the subject  |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 10-04-2003 09:18 AM
Haha. Very well put, Joe! I agree completely. I'll see these ads where people mention they are members of UACC, IADD, IADA, MADA or any other acronym you can piece together. And as Joe says it means nothing. All you need to join these organizations is to pay a fee. I belonged to the UACC years ago but after a couple of years I really didn't see the point of belonging anymore. I agree with everyone. These autographs are horrible. The Collins is particularly bad and looks like the forger just got finished doing a batch of Einsteins.
[This message has been edited by Scott (edited October 04, 2003).] |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 10-04-2003 09:54 AM
Sorry dseuss I had not read your post completely before I made mine. This guy may not be as reputable as he appeared to be to me. Sorry to hear about your experience. |
chet
Member Posts: 1506
From: Beverly Hills, Calif.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 10-08-2003 12:42 AM
Well, 4 days later I'm sorry (but not shocked) to say I've had no response from the seller of this obviously bogus item, and the auction is ongoing.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2194791038 Is there any other conclusion possible but that this very "accomplished" autograph "expert" is knowingly unloading a bald forgery?
I'd urge all to steer clear of this dealer; an exposed rotten tomato as far as I'm concerned. -chet |
dseuss
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posted 10-08-2003 09:27 AM
I don't think that this dealer is necessarily a bad one, but the placement of this item on Ebay is certainly bad judgement on his part. I think this item might have come in with a package deal of autographs he purchased and, perhaps, he feels this is the only means of selling it to the unsuspecting and certainly the unknowing. I wonder, though, if he really thinks this is real--the opening bid and "buy it now" are alarmingly high. Since my past experience with this dealer was not good, I certainly would not purchase anything from him, although I have seen some decent items in his ads (Autograph Collector Magazine). He took a "I know it all and you are wrong" approach with my transaction with him--nobody needs to patronize someone like that. |
chet
Member Posts: 1506
From: Beverly Hills, Calif.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 10-08-2003 12:05 PM
Dseuss, I think you're being way too generous.
This seller is either dishonest, at worst, or incompetent, at best.
I believe the only reason a high starting bid was put on this item is to fool people into thinking that an item priced that high MUST be real.
Also, I don't know how you can say, on the one hand, how this dealer may not necessarily be a bad one, while on the other hand you posit that maybe "he feels this is the only means of selling [this fake item] to the unsuspecting and certainly the unknowing". Isn't this the definition of a crook? It doesn't matter one iota that he offers a money-back guarantee, even if he honors it; he is knowingly selling a bogus autograph, and not for chump change either.-chet |
dseuss
New Member Posts:
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posted 10-08-2003 02:06 PM
I know this guy has been in business a long time and I do think he knows that what he is selling is a fake. I am absolutely sure of it. I have seen genuine Armstrong signatures offered by him, but I cannot believe that he really thinks this is one of them. That is why he is selling the item on Ebay--a venue with little recourse. I guess I stand corrected as I always thought that he was reasonably reputable. I do think that the majority of what he offers is legitimate, but this latest highly-visible public offering is rather a disgrace and most certainly a warning for autograph collectors that should be taken seriously. |
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