posted 09-05-2022 11:55 AM               

See our new arrivals online -

• Apollo 14 flown beta cloth patch
  
• Apollo 7-17 all flown artifact poster
  
• Neil Armstrong WSS SP
  
• Yuri Gagarin signed original biography
  
• Ken Mattingly signed bubble helmet 8x10
  
• Richard Gordon signed stunning EVA
  
• Buzz Aldrin signed "Man on the moon" 8x10
  
• Skylab flown relic pyramid acrylic
  
• Gennady Padalka signed baseball

Please contact us directly for more information on flown Sokol and Orlan gloves available!

posted 09-06-2022 11:50 PM               

The Orlan depicted with this connector seems to be indeed a Franken, but I am quite confused that Florian is not aware of this, although he is always very reliable and caring with his offered items. But please be aware that the originally Orlan depicted in the offer here, and the referenced one by Scott (SpaceAholic) on Florian's website are different ones due to the different autographs.

The current offered Orlan glove on Florian's website shows a Zalyotin signed glove. This one cannot have been used on an EVA as with such a connector no "air tightness" is physically possible.

posted 09-07-2022 06:35 AM               

The entire gasket and latching retention system on the "flown TM-30" glove quick disconnect is incorrect for the described application.

posted 03-23-2023 01:46 AM               

Thus, this Orlan might be somehow flown as a Franken/present but never ever has been used on an EVA! It also might be that Alex Panchenko already had some business with Zalyotin in the late MIR days, but, as already discussed here, the gasket and latching retention system would not allow any EVA at all.

EDIT: Just noticed the little sticker on the bag which depicts my assumption. It was "on board" but not used.

posted 03-23-2023 03:31 AM               

First of all the thread started with a totally wrong assumption of Scott. The glove advertized on top is from Skaplerov and a different one than the one discussed from TM-30.

Let me get this straight once and forever, sometimes professional research starts with contacting the right people and getting the facts straight before posting:

1. The Zalyotin flown Orlan glove from TM-30 was not sold but traded to a French collector who subsequently sold it to someone else apparently, what he described or declared it is beyond my control obviously.

2. The TM-30 glove is originally from Sergey Zalyotin who also signed the custom sticker to Alex Panchenko and sold and offered as flown on TM-30 by Zalyotin and Panchenkos word.

3. It was never offered or sold as EVA used, an actual part of his Orlan suit or anything else. There wasn't even an EVA on TM-30.

4. If this was a souvenir, a mixed glove or experimental glove we don't know but at no time I have ever said something else.

5. The trading value or original sale price on my website was way below a real EVA or actual hardware glove is selling for if you compare it to the Skaplerov one that was twice the price. It was more priced near an unflown Orlan glove although it's clearly offered as flown and certified as such.

6. Anybody familiar or knowledgable with Russian space memorabilia knows that in those days - similar to the early days of US spaceflight - artifacts weren't as certified as today is commonly known. Often things were either only cancelled in space or only signed like here by Zalyotin. Russian cosmonauts often felt awkward having to inscribe it as we do request today.

Disclaimer: This is certainly no license for Russian collecibles in general, there are lots of fakes and wrong things out there. You have to separate the good ones from the bad.

posted 03-23-2023 03:55 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rocket Chris:
...an accompanying picture showing the Franken indeed floating inside MIR would prove the flown status, but anyway still remains a Franken and not real space hardware.

---

posted 03-23-2023 04:39 AM               

Nearly all hardware returend from MIR do show a board stamp for instance, as you know. No signature at least proves if something was flown or not. All space hardware which is in use has an ID. Related to the ID you might find a documentation, or some evidences in pictures. As we all know, there is a lot of fake items going around and only a good proof justifies a price. That's the rule of collecting valuable items.

Today it's more common to take all kind souvenirs to space as during the Soviet times. And yes today you find more pictures. But here we have simply another initial point.

Beside this, I do not want to harm or trigger you. But you, as a professional dealer should also be aware of hints (for example the uncommon gasket). Probably here lessons learned is in need to provide full description of an item offered for sale. In that case, the information on the sticker on the transparent bag was not provided while the item was listed. This would have prevented any confusion/discussion here.

I appreciate you as a reputable seller and I know that I can always find something neat with you. Nothing will change about that. Be aware of this! and I also recommended you to friends of in several times.

But if there is any doubt, discussion is allowed! If there is something to clarify, then go for it and all is fine.

posted 03-23-2023 06:13 AM               

I would be curious to learn where I can compare the IDs of Russian hardware against any listing like in the US. Please post your sources here as this would be a major discovery and help for all collectors and dealers. Always glad and willing to learn.

posted 03-23-2023 06:38 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by spaceflori:
There wasn't even an EVA on TM-30.

---

posted 03-23-2023 10:57 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by SpaceAholic:
Clearly the current glove owner (who initiated contact with me) believed or was led to believe on the basis of the COA that the Orlan glove was authentic as such.

---

posted 03-23-2023 12:49 PM               

• Question 1: Is the provenance disputed?

  No, it is indeed an Orlan flown glove according to the documentation provided and the Panchenko/Sergey Zalyotin source. The CAO of Florian Noller is there only to recall the facts.

• Question 2: is the glove complete?
  
  This point may be a source of questions. It is certain that there are various versions of the materials among the Russians (proven fact). There is also nothing to prevent us from thinking that it is a glove assembled in space (for an experiment or to make spare equipment), which would also corroborate the thesis of a material which is then returned to Earth.

  As a reminder, there is only a little material that has returned to Earth and especially not complete outfits (weight problem among other things, they are evacuated into space). Florian get precision about this.

• Question 3: Is this glove flown?

  According to the documents yes and from the MIR TM-30 mission (note: it was a private mission). This is also what is written a prior Florian Noller CAD without further clarification.

• Question 4: Was this glove flown during an EVA?
  
  No. Nothing written in Florian Noller's CAD about it.

The conclusion of this story is that by not making assumptions on bases that are not solid and feelings we always arrive at erroneous conclusions. Or we can question everything and in this case each source of each material is always questionable.

posted 03-23-2023 01:29 PM               

Some points to ponder.

1. Why do other examples of TM-30 flown artifacts on the market have onboard stamps (but absent on this glove)?

2. Why does the description on the accompanying document indicate no EVA was performed during TM-30 (when the opposite is true)?

3. What would be the rational for assembling a glove on orbit; did the technical means exist to do so, and why would such a glove be produced in an inoperable configuration with spacesuits at the time.

4. Why would a cosmonaut who trained for and conducted an EVA (and as a result intimately familiar with Orlan spacesuits) knowingly acquire and fly with what is arguably not an Orlan glove but a facsimile (or potentially a knockoff intended to deceive).

posted 03-23-2023 02:57 PM               

In COA, there was no mention of EVA, just flown. Who is the author of the paper on the bag?

posted 03-23-2023 03:56 PM               

The bag, documentation, etc. are from Panchenko, not from me and there is no reason to believe either Panchenko or Zalyotin have any reason to lie here.

posted 03-24-2023 03:11 AM               

I see it in the responsibility of the seller to point out that it is not only a flown artifact, but also that it is only a souvenir, replica, test-item or similar. Of course, you should also do your own research (that comes with time and mistakes you make).

With covers, coins, photos, whatever stuff not originally intended for space-use, you can see that these are souvenirs, but with hardware that were originally intended for a certain use, this is not the case.

posted 03-24-2023 08:16 AM               

As always says in space and aeronautics industry: Just read instructions.

This information come from Alex Pachencko and Zalyotin so just correct. Really don't understand why reality is a problem or source of so many discussions.