posted 09-21-2010 04:08 PM            

Images are here.

This is identical to the one offered in an October 2009 Space Exploration auction, only this is mounted to a wooden shield-shaped 10 1/2" long plaque with the mission logo underneath. The ID plate is affixed to the plaque with aluminum screws. I've gently removed/reattached the plate to see if there's anything written underneath it--there are no markings, but it does have a light green coating and some wear by the screw holes on the reverse side. It's marked with the same numbering as found on the ID plate auctioned, and is exactly the same in every way (the numbers are impressed in the metal). The metal ID plate itself does have a slight bow to it. Condition is excellent.

I was advised that only three ID plates were supposed to have been made, flown and given to each of the astronauts; however, my dad owned this since the LM program ended. I don't know if an extra plate or two were produced to keep in the company archives, or if extras were made to give to certain employees since this was the last mission. I do know he was invited to the last Apollo launch but declined due to my mom's health at the time. I don't know if this was given to him instead. I have documentation on his employment, but none on this item.

posted 09-22-2010 01:16 AM               

It could also be a flight spare, in which case you'd have to assume it wasn't actually flown.

posted 09-22-2010 07:44 AM            

Does anyone know where the ID plates were affixed on the LM? I have several photos of the LM under construction (one I'm auctioning on ebay right now), but I don't have an interior shot, nor can I find one on the internet.

posted 09-27-2010 08:31 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by ritad:
Does anyone know where the ID plates were affixed on the LM? I have several photos of the LM under construction (one I'm auctioning on ebay right now), but I don't have an interior shot, nor can I find one on the internet.

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posted 09-29-2010 12:13 PM            

I had the chance to do some additional research the other day, and was able to access the other LM ID plates via the edgeofdarkness website. One detail I noticed is that the serial number on all of the plates through the years was “001”, while the part numbers varied. When comparing the ID plates pictured to the one I have, I saw that the serial number on my dad’s plate is different than the others in that the typeface is wider and centered in the space as opposed to flush left. The “America-Challenger” text is different as well, with the letterspacing much closer together than the others. The Apollo 17 plate pictured on the web has residue on the back from early double-stick tape (the kind that later crumbled, gave up, and whatever was affixed with it fell off). The one my dad owned is attached with screws. The wooden plaque is different in that it has a logo decal rather than the metal LM die cut above the plate; but it looks to be professionally made rather than something done in a home workshop.

So, my assessment is that the ID plate in my possession may have been 1. Made to be flown, but rejected due to the difference in typeface style as stated above, for consistency or quality’s sake; or 2. Restruck at the time in a low number on the same aluminum stock/die as the flown examples as a souvenir, and attached to a slightly different style plaque than those given to the astronauts. It’s definitely made with a die stamp rather than something just screened on the metal. I only wish my dad had written something on the back, or that the Apollo 17 plate at auction was still on its original plaque to compare it.

Based on this, and because a few people have inquired about price, I’ll offer it at $1200 negotiable, plus postage. It seems to be a rare item, but whether it was flown or not may never be confirmed. And if it is confirmed someday, great...we all need a little good luck with our collections. If anyone out there is interested, please contact me at the email link above.

posted 10-03-2010 04:29 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by ritad:
I can’t imagine a mad scramble to work riveted ID plates loose while doing everything else astronauts were required to do

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posted 10-03-2010 06:21 AM               

A rivet is a permanent mechanical fastener. Before being installed a rivet consists of a smooth cylindrical shaft with a head on one end. The end opposite the head is called the buck-tail. On installation the rivet is placed in a pre-drilled hole, and the tail is upset, or bucked (i.e. deformed), so that it expands to about 1.5 times the original shaft diameter, holding the rivet in place. To distinguish between the two ends of the rivet, the original head is called the factory head and the deformed end is called the shop head or buck-tail.

posted 10-03-2010 03:02 PM            

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Originally posted by Rick Mulheirn:
I think it safe to say Rita's implication was the crews would be too busy to spend time removing pieces from the spacecraft. It is a given that anything riveted to a bulkhead for instance would remain in place.

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That was what I was thinking. I also should have specified that my dad used to speak about things being "riveted" in place, so that any hardware wouldn't shake loose during the turbulence at takeoff. Thanks for all the insight as well; interesting that there was a practice session on removing the controller!

If anyone wants to email me, please use rdubasdes@mindspring.com, that's my registered address here. Thanks!

posted 10-03-2010 04:16 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by ritad:
interesting that there was a practice session on removing the controller!

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posted 10-05-2010 06:24 AM               

So that's it then - an 'original' plate was fixed in each spacecraft and not removed/returned, and three duplicates carried in the PPKs or OFK to present to the crew post flight.

posted 10-05-2010 07:49 AM            

It will be here with me should anyone want to add it to their collection. I'm keeping some of his photos, interoffice memos and his Apollo 13 presentation piece so I can display them properly. I've adjusted the ID plate price further up in the thread, and my email address is there as well.

If I find any written reference to the Apollo 17 plate, I'll post it, but so far, nothing.

posted 10-05-2010 09:41 AM               

We do know that Grumman produced LM plates for the crews as presentation pieces and flew them.

You can't rely on the PPK lists alone, because the crews also carried other packages of material like beta cloth patches and flag kits separately up in one of the lockers located in the CM tunnel.

Let's see if we can put all that information together.

posted 10-05-2010 11:03 AM               

The trouble is that up until Apollo 17, LM crews tended to carry more than one PPK on the LM. The question is how many in each flight, because they varied per flight. The PPK lists tended to lump several items as one on the lists. We have ancedotal evidence to that fact from astronauts.

In fact, one astronaut carried 28 items to the lunar surface. Now that number was listed on his PPK list. The real fact is that each one of those listed items were multiples and in actuality he carried approximately 75 separate mementos to the lunar surface.

So it is worth while asking if those LM plates went to the surface. While chances are they didn't, at least we might find out what did occur with them once and for all.