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  FS: Apollo crew-signed dollar bills

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Author Topic:   FS: Apollo crew-signed dollar bills
wetherby1
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Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 07-28-2010 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have roughly 12 signed $1.00 bills (new uncirculated condition) dating from 1963 to 1969 sign by varying mission crews. Missions 11 and 13 for sure.

#1 on the list is Neil Armstrong (signed Neil A S?), and crew. A few more are Buzz Aldron, Tom Stafford, Dick Gordon and more.

These are 100% authentic, as my wife attended Clear Lake High with the NASA brats, Graduated 1976 (Gus Babb's son is her best friend) and her father was a VP at a local bank, hence the new bills.

Right now, I'm gauging interest. But will part with some of them.

xlsteve
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Posts: 391
From: Holbrook MA, USA
Registered: Jul 2008

posted 07-28-2010 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for xlsteve   Click Here to Email xlsteve     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think some scans of these would be helpful.

Editor's note: How to post images.

wetherby1
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Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 07-28-2010 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's what I have. Three of each, but only letting a few go.

Editor's note: Image expired or was removed by the user.

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 07-29-2010 04:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please bare with me, most of this was done on my mobile.

I failed to mention, the bills are consecutive numbers.

The set shown, is the bills being sold. However, the buyer will receive high def scans of the matching bills, or the entire set if you wish. A total of 24 bills are in the sleeves. 18 of which are signed. only 6 are being sold. The others are being passed on to my sons, sorry.

I failed to realize the worth of these, and I am still gathering information on them. I will have the exchange brokered through a local attorney if you wish, it would make me feel more comfortable.

Some signatures are illegible. I encourage you to match Apollo mission crew names with the signatures, and I'll do my level best to do the same.

So far I only have up to mission 13. Thanks,

Del Smith (yes, that's my real name)

Ken Havekotte
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Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 07-29-2010 06:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Of just the 6 "crew bills" illustrated, those Apollo crews are from 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14.

liftoff1
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Posts: 235
From: Cumberland, Wisconsin
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 07-29-2010 07:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for liftoff1   Click Here to Email liftoff1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow... very cool set!!

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 07-29-2010 07:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have 3 sets of the 6 shown, 18 total. And an additional 6 unsigned, but with the consecutive numbers. Only this set is for sale.

I have yet to understand the values of these, since I have nothing to compare, but *reasonable* offers are welcomed.

These will be sold, so don't be afraid to email me.

Again, these are authentic, and will be treated as such. I'd prefer the safety of an attorney to handle the sale, as this protects you and I.

Thanks again.

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 07-29-2010 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just wanted to add that these are vintage signatures that are not "autopen." A history of how these were obtained will be signed and notarized by my wife, with verifiable references.

I appreciate the offers, but someone was kind enough to email me an approximate worth.

So a reasonable offer should reflect the credible history, uniqueness of the items signed, and the fact that they are a set.

That being said, My wife and I are not collectors, and in her own words, "these people were my neighbors, these don't mean anything to me." However, these are in fact collectibles, and will do nothing but appreciate.

xlsteve
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Posts: 391
From: Holbrook MA, USA
Registered: Jul 2008

posted 07-29-2010 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for xlsteve   Click Here to Email xlsteve     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wetherby1:
...these are in fact collectibles, and will do nothing but appreciate.

Doubtless they will, but as I've never had to retain a lawyer to broker a sale I would think that the legal fees would significantly add to the cost to acquire one or all or them.

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 07-29-2010 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Legal fees are covered by me, sorry.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42987
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 07-29-2010 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you are okay with covering fees (in the suggested case, legal), then you might be better suited by consigning the bills you want to sell to an auction. There are several firms that organize dedicated space auctions and accept consignments: Novaspace Galleries also offers a free do-it-yourself, eBay-style auction service, Astro-Auction.

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 07-29-2010 03:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Robert, the wife is sitting here with the "gears" grinding, and quite stoked over the idea.

At this moment, she is considering selling or auctioning the entire set of 24 pieces, as well as some signed lithos. One of which is the 11 crew that signed (Earth Shot?)

If she does make this decision, it would have to be an auction, or one *very* serious collector.

spaced out
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Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 07-29-2010 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my opinion offering them only as a set is a surefire way of reducing their value, or even stopping them from selling at all.

They do make a nice set and the consecutive numbers are interesting and if someone want to acquire them all together then let them outbid everyone else on each item. It's still much better (for you) to allow individual collectors with different targets and budgets to bid freely on each item.

Another trap that I see many sellers fall into is that someone gives them a rough idea of what an item might be worth (usually a high-end price) and the seller then lists the item with an opening bid or reserve set at that price. The result? Zero bids and no sale.

Find a way to sell them that gets the best exposure in the right circles and then let them find their own price. They're worth what a couple of bidders on the day decide they can afford. No one can predict exactly what that price will be.

The only thing that's sure is it'll be a whole lot more than what you paid for them, which was zilch.

bruce
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Posts: 916
From: Fort Mill, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 07-29-2010 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bruce   Click Here to Email bruce     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wouldn't say "zilch." It looks like they have about six bucks invested in these signatures.

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 07-29-2010 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was asked to provide a source of origin, so in my wifes words here we go...
My grandmother, Vermelle Cathey, was the executive secretary to the president of First National Bank of Houston, his name was Albert Cleere.

Most of the Astronauts lived in the rural Seabrook and LaPort area. And my Grandmother was living in LaPort at the time. The prominent people lived in the Seabrook area to be away from the busy city life.

The bank furnished the bills, some of then signed, and handed out to important people, others were signed at functions that my Grandmother had attended.

The astronauts, and their wives, were the parents of my classmates, elementary through high school... well, I don't want to do any "name dropping", so I'll stop there.

wetherby1
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Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 07-30-2010 09:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Working on a certified letter of provenance... Should be in the next couple days.

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 07-30-2010 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just a quick note...

Google the names metioned above, and you will come across a book written by Jackie Greer, Vermelle Catheys friend, called "Life Always Begins."

In that book is a passage about Albert Cleere, and being the president of the First National Bank, and moving to Harrisburg Bank.

I talked to my father-in-law today, and was told there would be no problem getting certified proof, if he doesn't already have the certificates.

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 07-30-2010 10:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This evening, the wife and I went through some other keepsakes from the era, and found the missing link...

Quality photos and scans to come, I promise.

A photo of the Apollo 10 vehicle launching, with the words "To Vermelle Cathey, best wishes -from- The Apollo X Crew. Tom Stafford, Cdr.

As well as the "Earth Shot", stating "To Vermelle Cathey, with appreciation for many years of friendship, Frank Borman"

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 08-01-2010 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just wanted to update, sorry for the brief posts and responses. I'm working odd hours, and posting mostly on my mobile.

The wife is still deciding on whether or not to sell. These were handed down by her Grandmother who passed a few years ago. And is now getting sentimenal.

Photos and scans will still be posted, despite her decision.

Thanks for being patient.

ejectr
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Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 08-02-2010 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ejectr   Click Here to Email ejectr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If they were mine, I wouldn't sell them.

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 08-08-2010 08:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pics and hi-res scans are up. The wife, ...still questionable on the heirloom situation. Still entertaining offers though.

FFrench
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Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-08-2010 08:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFrench     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting to see that, just like some astronauts not wanting to sign on the flag, there seems to be some difference with some astronauts studiously avoiding signing over the President's face, and some not...

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 08-09-2010 06:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the process of a formal appraisal, hope to have news soon.

My wife wishes to sell these as a complete collection, so long as the sale is a reasonable price. Otherwise, they will be retained for appreciable value.

Provenance has been solidly established, and possibly two LOAs (at least one) will accompany the sale.

I understand that will put these out of reach for most collectors, for that I apologize.

MrSpace86
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Posts: 1618
From: Gardner, KS, USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 08-09-2010 07:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrSpace86   Click Here to Email MrSpace86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This has been quite a drawn out process. To be honest with you, it comes down to two things: 1) Buyer assumes risks of purchasing items from you. Whether they are fake or not, or whether they have provenance or not is up to the buyer. And 2) You seem hesitant about selling these. As stated above, you are making this seem like a legal proceeding when they are only items signed by astronauts. Sure they are somewhat unique in a sense that they are consecutive dollar bills, rare Apollo crews, etc, but it's not like you are selling the original Declaration of Independence from the National Archives. I think the mistake that things are "worth a lot of money" is committed one too many times in this hobby and in others. I know what you expect to get out of these is most likely quadruple what I or many out there can pay. That being said, don't be surprised if they are also not "worth" as much as you hope.

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 08-09-2010 08:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
  1. My wife's indecision made this drawn out. These are inherited items from a much loved grandmother, so not easily parted with.
  2. Having the documentation notarized and brokered through an attorney seems safe enough. You're not soliciting Western Union transfers from Africa are you?
  3. These don't have to be sold, as we're not in dire straits.
  4. These are collectible items, and will appreciate in value. Based on my research, estimates, and input from "connected parties," the price is slightly above par for the lower value of these items.
For the record, We've been offered ~5k for one set, but wish to sell the whole collection as one.

I invite you to research *some* of the background given, and decide for yourself provenance. Thank you for your opinion though.

MrSpace86
Member

Posts: 1618
From: Gardner, KS, USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 08-09-2010 09:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrSpace86   Click Here to Email MrSpace86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
  1. I understand that. That's why I believe if you are not 100% sure on this and they have been passed down in the family, maybe they should stay in the family.

  2. I don't understand the Africa reference, but an attorney can't really say if an item is authentic or not unless he is an astronaut autograph certifier. Big time auction houses have stated items as authentic when they are not.

  3. If these don't have to be sold and you are just looking for opinions on value and authenticity, this thread is in the wrong forum.

  4. Of course they will appreciate in value, I am not saying otherwise.
I don't really need to research some of the background given; just by looking at them they seem legit to me and very nice items.

But as I stated in my previous post, some people may offer you $5k for it and others may offer you $1k and others may offer $10k. In this hobby, just like any other, prices fluctuate day to day and you may not always be satisfied with that you get when it's all said and done (especially if you are not 100% sure on giving them up).

Good luck either way.

mjanovec
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Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 08-10-2010 12:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wetherby1:
For the record, We've been offered ~5k for one set, but wish to sell the whole collection as one.

While you are certainly free to part with these bills as you see fit, I would recommend not selling the entire collection as a whole...as you'll most likely get less money in total. The bills, sold in sets of 6 (or individually) are more likely to help you get the most money.

If you insist on selling the entire collection as a whole, be aware that most potential buyers are probably only interested in keeping one of the sets and will most likely sell off the other two sets to the highest bidder.

spaced out
Member

Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 08-10-2010 02:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Imagine for a moment that your wife had been given three identical vintage Ferraris by her grandmother. I'm sure you can appreciate that there are very few car collectors who would be interested in buying three identical cars.

Only a dealer would be able to make the purchase and they would be forced to pay signifcantly less than the going rate per car in order to be able to make a profit when selling them on.

The situation is much the same with these three sets of signed bills.

Since you've stated they don't have to be sold, that they should appreciate in value as investments, and that they have some strong sentimental value for your wife, the most obvious answer seems to be to keep two sets for now (for sentimental reasons and/or as an investment) and to sell one.

Selling one set will give you an idea what the remaining two sets are really worth - although bear in mind that a second identical set may sell for a wildly different price on a different day.

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 08-10-2010 06:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well noted folks, Thank you all very much.

I made the point to the wife last night. Ultimately, it's her decision. I'm ready to put this mess to rest.

I'll wait for the results of the appraisal, then post the results. So far, the estimate has been on par with my research, with a value of $6k-$10k per set.

Not including the last four signed bills. The results may be more or way less.

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 08-25-2010 06:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Received the appraisal last night. Calling today to validate.

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 08-25-2010 08:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ms. Cathey, my wife, has committed to sell.

One offer has been made for the entire collection, several offers for one of the three sets. And one response received so far.

If the entire collection is not sold, only sets will be sold. Responses to offers will be expedited from here forward, discreetly.

FYI, the appraisal was incomplete (my error), and barely came close to the first offer received for a set. And is currently being re-submitted for the entire collection. This will be quite expensive, and Sharon and I would like to avoid the extra expense. However, our request is slightly above the lowest offer thus far.

Curious enough though, I was told this about the history of signed notes amongst astronauts and pre-NASA test pilots...

The genre is said to have started as a drinking device -- if you didn't bring a fellow-astronaut-signed dollar to the bar, the drinks were on you.
So, in short, we'd like to avoid the extra appraisal fees (you'll receive a copy of the certificate thus far) auction fees and commission, and pass that on to someone else. Seems we'll get the same amount anyway.

wetherby1
Member

Posts: 20
From: Houston Tx
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 04-03-2012 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wetherby1   Click Here to Email wetherby1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just wanted to pop in to say, My wife is definitely selling two sets of these. Contact me for info.

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