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Author
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Topic: EB: Michael Collins' signed "Carrying the Fire"
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southpaw6267
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posted 07-16-2009 10:58 AM
   
I have an extra copy I am listing for sale. This is coming from the July 19th Air and Space Signing. It will be shipped to me after the signing. Please see the listing for details. The person I originally bought it for backed out. Very short sighted on his part. |
lm5eagle
Member Posts: 429
From:
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 07-16-2009 11:19 AM
I see that in addition to this item (#130319022807) you are also listing another copy (#130319022533). Looks like two short sighted individuals! |
southpaw6267
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posted 07-16-2009 11:24 AM
No that is a copy my brother asked me to list for him that he purchased. As he is not a member of the site I did not feel it appropriate to mention it on here (but it is out there now). I was just too lazy to make the listings look different. Thanks for the clarification though. |
Hilary
Member Posts: 37
From: Huntsville, AL
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 07-16-2009 02:44 PM
This is all very frustrating to me. When I called the NASM about the book signing right after it was announced, I was told that they would only hold books that could be picked up and signed at the signing and that there would be no mail orders. Then I saw a post that they were taking orders over the phone... needless to say they were all gone when I called back. Now they are already being sold on eBay and other auction sites by several sellers for a profit... no wonder astronauts get frustrated about signings and resale. I hope that this does not result in a change in future NASM signings. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 07-16-2009 05:27 PM
Yeah, frustrating is a good word. Good luck convincing Mike Collins to ever do anything like this again. |
thump
Member Posts: 575
From: washington dc usa
Registered: May 2004
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posted 07-17-2009 08:39 AM
Hw can you sell something that is not even in your possession yet? What if there is a screw up with the order through NASM, if it gets lost or damaged in the mail, there is so many other possibilities. Doesn't E-Bay have some sort of rules re: this type of sale? |
southpaw6267
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posted 07-17-2009 11:12 AM
Thanks for all the comments I do understand both sides. As far as ebay is concerned often times product is put up pre-sale before it hits the stores. In my particular case I state that they are not yet in my possession and in the listing CLEARLY state that if anything goes worng I will cancel the listing and hold NO ONE responsible. I realized that anything can go wrong. Let me say this, as I do enjoy visiting this site every day, though I may not post often as I am one who believes in speaking only when you can sound knowledgeable on a subject and I am still a neophyte when it comes to space collecting though I am trying to learn, Any way if this thread is offensive or inappropriate I do not want it disintegrating into something that takes away from the site I enjoy than by all means the moderator can feel free to delete it. Whatever is best for the site. Please so not think the listing in any way flies against ebay policy pre-order listings are common even to the point where some state that your item may be shipped weeks or months in the future, i.e. recent Yankee Stadium items being auctioned in June that would not be ready until July (I had to wait so I know). Thank you all. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 07-17-2009 02:58 PM
Nah, it's just the reason why so many astronauts have stopped signing ...the ink is hardly dry before the items are up on eBay, and in the this case (and others) the ink hasn't even been applied yet.Out of curiosity, if the book is just an extra, why not make it available on cS to another collector who can't attend for just your cost? Then you could save eBay fees. |
liebeek
Member Posts: 247
From: the netherlands
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted 07-17-2009 03:32 PM
Great idea, as posted before I am still looking for one and I certainly cannot attend, being overseas.I would also pay 10 dollars (?) above that cost for all the trouble. Just say the word. Ruud |
lm5eagle
Member Posts: 429
From:
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 07-17-2009 03:52 PM
Nice suggestion Ruud, but he is not going to offer you a $16 book (plus your $10 offer), when he already has a current top bid of $52. It's another one of those occasions that leaves a sour taste. |
Hilary
Member Posts: 37
From: Huntsville, AL
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 07-17-2009 05:01 PM
If anyone is going and would be willing to get a second Collins book signed for me please email me privately. I am just looking to add to my collection (trust me I would never ever sell it...) and unfortunately cannot make the trek to NASM from Huntsville this weekend. |
AJ
Member Posts: 511
From: Plattsburgh, NY, United States
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 07-19-2009 03:30 PM
There was a colossal jerk at NASM today, who must have shown up super early. When we were in line to buy books, he came along yelling at people that they would never get through and he was offering at least three copies of Carrying the Fire for $100 each. That sort of thing, along with this auction, makes me mad. Why would your brother order a copy and turn around and put it on eBay, unless he was in it solely for profit? |
Hilary
Member Posts: 37
From: Huntsville, AL
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 07-19-2009 11:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AJ:
When we were in line to buy books, he came along yelling at people that they would never get through and he was offering at least three copies of Carrying the Fire for $100 each.
This really makes me angry... was he doing this inside the museum? I cannot believe that NASM staff would tolerate this activity. I am disappointed that people take advantage of these situations. I would never even think of doing this. I guess that is due to the fact that I am only into collecting space stuff due to my lifelong interest in space. I have been collecting since I was very young and now work for NASA. I would never even think of selling my collection for profit. By the way, if anyone happens to have an extra copy (at the actual price plus shipping) that they are willing to part with please let me know.Thanks! |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 07-19-2009 11:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Hilary:
This really makes me angry... was he doing this inside the museum? I cannot believe that NASM staff would tolerate this activity.
Based on what was said in the other thread about the NASM signing, it appears they didn't tolerate that kind of activity and asked the person to leave. |
David Bryant
Member Posts: 986
From: Norfolk UK
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted 07-19-2009 11:46 PM
In my humble opinion, some posters above are being a little precious about this. Most collectors have items they bought from eBay, from third parties or from online auctions. Anyone who started collecting after 1994 and has Neil Armstrong's autograph must necessarily have done so! At virtually every signing at which 'The Space Station' has been present, we've been asked to obtain autographs for people who couldn't attend: and I've seen plenty of other dealers laying down piles of 10 x 4's for signing. It has always seemed to me that the astronauts have no objection: they're getting paid the usual rate without having to go through the 'polite chit-chat' and 'lurch over the table photo opportunity'!Personally, I see nothing wrong in southpaw's actions: he was there, he bought the books: someone who wasn't there has the chance to add the book to their collection. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 07-20-2009 08:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by David Bryant:
Personally, I see nothing wrong in southpaw's actions: he was there, he bought the books: someone who wasn't there has the chance to add the book to their collection.
Ummm... no he wasn't... at least not for the copies (2) placed by him on e-Bay. "It will be shipped to me after the signing." I don't think anyone here would have a problem with people obtaining signatures for others who cannot attend an event -- that would be encouraged, it happens often, and normally the item is provided to the non-attendee for only the costs incurred in getting the item signed. The point isn't that people sometimes sell items that they have obtained. The point is, it is a bit disconcerting for people to obtain these items for free (or for only the cost of the book) and then IMMEDIATELY place them up for sale on eBay and other venues. For example, it is not unusual to see John Glenn items, dated by him only a week previous, placed on eBay for sale. Is it legal? Of course. Is it symptomatic of the reason why many/most astronauts are very reluctant to sign? Absolutely. Update: In addition to the above-listed sellers' 2 copies of Carrying the Fire, there are now 2 more copies up for sale from other sellers... more to come, I'm sure... ------------------
John Capobianco
Camden DE |
AJ
Member Posts: 511
From: Plattsburgh, NY, United States
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 07-20-2009 11:26 PM
I think it's one thing to have an item for X number of years and for whatever reason need/want to part with it, and put it on eBay or astro-auction. That's how a lot of people are able to build a collection, or add to an existing one. But I think it is really a totally different can of worms when a person blatantly takes advantage of a situation solely to make a profit. Is the guy selling on eBay really any different than the jerk who was at NASM? And about him: I'm glad to hear he was asked to leave! He wasn't even a good salesman, he was just a jerk. |
southpaw6267
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posted 07-22-2009 08:52 AM
Listings have been pulled. I called the museum and Mr. Collins refused to sign the pre-orders they took. They said they had 350 pre-orders. Thanks to all for all comments on both sides of the debate. |
thump
Member Posts: 575
From: washington dc usa
Registered: May 2004
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posted 07-22-2009 09:45 AM
He very well may have "refused" to sign the preorders because he found out that people had already started to try and sell them, even before he signed them. If that's the case, I would be very unhappy (wanted to use another word, but knew it would not be accepted) if I had preorded with the proper intention of keeping this in my collection. Instead of trying to profit on this, you could have easily cancelled or amended your order... |
jimsz
Member Posts: 616
From:
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 07-22-2009 11:11 AM
If a person pays the asking price for the book/autograph, they are doing nothing wrong with selling it either after it is signed or before it is signed. Not everyone can attend these signings and those who can are able to do with their property as they wish.Most here have purchased portions of their autographs from a third party, this really is no different. The issue should be whether eBay should be listing items that the seller does not possess as that used to be a violation of ebay terms of sale. Those selling the not yet obtained autographs were doing nothing more than to capitalize on the anniversary of Apollo which is the same thing the publisher of the book is doing as well as those hosting the event. All of this is about the money. |
Wehaveliftoff
Member Posts: 2343
From:
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 07-22-2009 11:36 AM
Ditto, that's all that eBay cares about anyway. I would have bought the Collins book if I was too far back in line and didn't get a copy. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42987
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-22-2009 12:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jimsz:
Not everyone can attend these signings and those who can are able to do with their property as they wish.
Absolutely correct, however: - the sellers in question were not attending the event, they were pre-ordering signed copies through the mail;
- the Smithsonian was only taking a limited number of pre-orders;
- those who ordered extras to immediately sell on eBay were ultimately depriving a chance for others to order directly from the Smithsonian; and,
- if it is true that Collins refused to sign the pre-orders because of (or even in part due to) the eBay resales, then these sellers' auctions also deprived many enthusiasts from obtaining signed copies they had ordered.
What's done is done, and crying over spilled milk serves no one, but hopefully this can serve as an example for the future that an "extra" ordered for immediate resale is very likely robbing others of the chance to obtain one for themselves. |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1522
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 07-22-2009 02:42 PM
Seems to me the seller was selling a "futures" contract on the book.I'm sorry Mike pulled the plug but I can't blame him one bit. If I were an Apollo astronaut, I'd never do another free signing. |
jimsz
Member Posts: 616
From:
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 07-22-2009 06:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
If it is true that Collins refused to sign the pre-orders because of (or even in part due to) the eBay resales, then these sellers' auctions also deprived many enthusiasts from obtaining signed copies they had ordered.
If any of the ebay sellers ordered the books within the guidelines they are truly doing nothing wrong. If they buy and pay for their item, what they wish to do with that item is nobody else's business. If the venue said Mr Collins would accept a specific number of pre-orders, they and he should be held to that. Anything less I would think could be considered fraud. I'm starting to think the astronauts are either becoming a bit too crotchety or a little too full of themselves. The actions of a few greedy individuals wanting to profit via ebay is a poor reflection of them, though they are doing so within the "rules" as opposed to a venue or astronaut who agrees to do something and then possibly backs out after giving their word because they don't like how others are going to play with their toys they are given. One is a poor reflection on an individual the other reflects poorly on a legend. You tell me, which is worse? |
AJ
Member Posts: 511
From: Plattsburgh, NY, United States
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 07-22-2009 07:05 PM
I think it's best to point out that at this point, none of us have any idea WHY Mike didn't sign the pre-orders. It's all speculation. If I had to guess, I would say he was simply tired of signing books. I know a lot of people had a pleasant experience at the signing, and I'm not trying to detract from it, but from what I observed when I got to take photos, it was a steady stream of signing, without the opportunity to do much more than shake hands. They did this for over three hours and let's not forget that these gentlemen are in their 70s. We don't know the details of what his agreement with the museum was, nor do we know why he changed his mind. I'm sure it's frustrating... I was frustrated to be at the event and get shut out from getting signatures, but I think we're lucky that people like mike agree to do these things at all. |
southpaw6267
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posted 07-22-2009 07:56 PM
I spoke to the contact at the museum today and was told basically there was confusion as to the agreement between the museum and Mr. Collins publicist and ALSO as AJ alluded to that they wanted him to sign the books AFTER the public signing and he was just too tired. Now this is just the information I received first hand from the museum. Perhaps the publicist made a deal Mr. Collins wasn't aware of or didn't approve I don't know.The good news is they are trying to work out a deal to ship the books to Mr. Collins to sign as they feel badly they took so many orders only to have them unfilled. The Aldrin and Bean books were signed ok. I have learned my lesson and I thank you all for it. Sometimes you need to be hit with a brick. If the books do come back signed I will be keeping both one for me and one put away for my son. You will not be seeing anything on EBAY from the Collins signing from me. I am looking forward at least to the Aldrin and Bean books. Have a good night all!!!! |
Dan Lorraine
Member Posts: 373
From: Cranston, R.I.
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-22-2009 08:19 PM
Honestly, this is nothing but pure greed and it is rather sickening in my opinion. I don't blame the astronauts for not signing for free anymore (although some of them are pretty ridiculous too). I was fortunate to grow up on the moon landings and enjoyed getting all of my signed photos for free through the mail. Never, ever have I sold something that I received for free for a profit! I often wrote to Gene Cernan after each mission because he always sent the nicest batch of NASA lithos of the recent mission, and he always included a nice autographed photo. Most of my duplicates I have given away over the years. With that said, many of the posters to Cs have sold items that they've received for free and I don't believe that time makes a difference. It is taking advantage of a good gesture in my humble opinion. |
thump
Member Posts: 575
From: washington dc usa
Registered: May 2004
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posted 07-23-2009 09:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by southpaw6267:
If the books do come back signed I will be keeping both one for me and one put away for my son. You will not be seeing anything on EBAY from the Collins signing from me.
So your original story about your friend and your brother backing out was all a lie? Now it turns out that you had 2 ordered, the same amount that you were trying to sell, and NOW you are keeping them. The truth is coming out... |
southpaw6267
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posted 07-23-2009 10:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by thump:
So your original story about your friend and your brother backing out was all a lie?
No lies I ordered two one for me and one for a friend that backed out thus the one on eBay. He still doesn't want it thus I will keep the extra for me and not ebay it. The other on ebay was a copy my brother ORDERED HIMSELF and asked me to put on. So where is the lie. Read a little closer and get the facts straight. Ultimately if I chose to order 16 of them and eBay all of them that would have been my choice (the wrong choice of course). No I would never do that and REGRET putting the one extra one I had. My brother is a different story I told him if the books ultimately do come in to take care of it himself. Can we not beat this dead horse I think I have been pretty forthcoming and listened to all sides. If I truly wanted to lie I sure wouldn't have sat here and taken the harsh comments the past week I respect all sides of an argument and have since changed my mind in regards to selling any extra if they come through. If you wish to continue with this it will be one sided as I will not sully this board with childish banter back and forth with someone who seems to rather speak without fact. You were also the one pushing forth the theory that Mr. Collins refused the books due to eBay listings before the actual facts came out. I on the other hand came on with direct quotes of the reason from the source. Here are the quotes directly from the thread: I have an extra copy I am listing for sale Extra indicating I do have another thus I ordered two. I see that in addition to this item (#130319022807) you are also listing another copy (#130319022533). A question arose as to the other copy I had to which I replied: No that is a copy my brother asked me to list for him that he purchased. Clearly indicating where it came from and who purchased it.No where did I mention that my brother backed out. I indicated he purchased one. Please do not accuse me of lying without your facts straight I did not have two ordered that were put on eBay I had two ordered listed the extra one that was no longer wanted and also listed my brothers for three total. I apologize to Robert for this reply and I realize this thread got heated and did not wish to add to the fire but once I am called out as a liar then I have to speak. I am hoping this is the last I have to add to this thread any further comments will be from others looking to beat the aforementioned dead horse. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42987
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-23-2009 10:36 AM
This thread is now closed. As a general reminder, there is a difference between constructive and personal criticism. It is possible to discuss a situation without making accusations. |
Topic Closed
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