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  FS: Neil Armstrong signed X-15 8x10

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Author Topic:   FS: Neil Armstrong signed X-15 8x10
AuthenticItems
Member

Posts: 176
From: USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 12-02-2007 09:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AuthenticItems   Click Here to Email AuthenticItems     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For sale is an excellent condition Neil Armstrong matte finish 8x10. Hand signed in black. Excellent photo, excellent condition. $2850 (price includes s/h in USA, international s/h at buyers expense). Email me if interested: authentic_items@yahoo.com

gliderpilotuk
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Posts: 3108
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 12-02-2007 09:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could you please provide some provenance for this? Wasn't it for sale on Ebay recently?

Thx
Paul

bigcrash3
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Posts: 36
From: Summerfield, NC, USA
Registered: Jun 2007

posted 12-03-2007 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bigcrash3   Click Here to Email bigcrash3     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks like the one I posted about in October asking for an opinion, thanks for the replies. It was on ebay, here is the link. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230186256474.

It sold for $221.50
Paul

machbusterman
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Posts: 1659
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004

posted 12-03-2007 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
IMHO $2850 is way over the odds for this item. $2850 for a VINTAGE signature on a VINTAGE NASA glossy would be reasonable.... I was originally offered this piece last year or early this year (I forget which). The lack of provenance was a major concern for me then also.

machbusterman
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Posts: 1659
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004

posted 12-04-2007 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bigcrash3:
Looks like the one I posted about in October asking for an opinion
You mean from this thread?

Russ Still
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Posts: 526
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 12-04-2007 03:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russ Still   Click Here to Email Russ Still     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So is "authenticitems" offering to sell a signed photo that is actually the property of Jurg Bolli???

Jurg Bolli
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Posts: 545
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-04-2007 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jurg Bolli   Click Here to Email Jurg Bolli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I need to make an apology:

I have a photo that is identical, signed by A., bought from Lunarlegacies. When I bought it I thought that this was unique. However, the signature on my photo and on the one offered here are slightly different. I'll try to send a scan of the signature to Robert in a day or two.

Does anybody else have this signed photo, and does anybody know how and when they were signed?

I believe mine is authentic, and Donnis gave me a COA with a guarantee.

Jurg

AuthenticItems
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Posts: 176
From: USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 12-04-2007 07:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AuthenticItems   Click Here to Email AuthenticItems     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So it appears Armstrong signed a few of these at the same time based on the similarity of mine and Jurgs. I would also say this was probably signed within the past 10 years I would say based on the condition of the photo and sharpie on the photo. I wonder what the circumstance was were he signed multiple at once of the same photo. I recall hearing a story about someone posing a teacher and getting a signed photo for each of his students, but the person wasn't a teacher. Don't know if the story is true, but if it is I could see a photo like this being part of that story, or a similar story.

bigcrash3
Member

Posts: 36
From: Summerfield, NC, USA
Registered: Jun 2007

posted 12-05-2007 08:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bigcrash3   Click Here to Email bigcrash3     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by machbusterman:
You mean from this thread?
Yes, that is the thread. thx.

I was bidding on ebay at the time, unsure of the authenticity I was not willing to go very high. It sold for $221.50. Needless to say, a bargain... if it's real.

Jurg Bolli
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Posts: 545
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-06-2007 10:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jurg Bolli   Click Here to Email Jurg Bolli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is a scan of my photo:

The signature is slightly different from the one offered on ebay and above.

Any doubts on the authenticity? As I said I got it from Lunar Legacies in late 1999 or early 2000, and I have a COA from Donnis.

Thanks for any help.
Jurg

mjanovec
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Posts: 3609
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 12-06-2007 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While I certainly could be wrong, I suspect the signature(s) are likely legit. It appears to match his early 90s signature style pretty well. If the two items were forgeries from the same hand, I would almost expect a closer match between the two signatures. As it is, it looks like Armstrong signed both in a hurry.

The fact that you got it from Donnis in 1999 seems to weigh in your favor...both because he has a good reputation and, correct me if I'm wrong, Armstrong forgeries going around at that time weren't this good.

Philip
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Posts: 4911
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-07-2007 03:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That are 2 good points (the Lunar Legacies source and the difference in autographs), moreover it looks like it's signed with a (too) thick pen. Staedtler permanent ink pens come in S, F and M

gliderpilotuk
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From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 12-07-2007 04:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My only observation - it's surprising how rare a thick, black Armstrong signature is on a personalised WSS litho, or for that matter, nearly any other medium he signed. These 2 signatures differ from each other quite significantly, yet are on the same photo and signed roughly in the same place. That, I find intriguing. Of the two, the second one has more convincing traits, but I'd want provenance with one of these thick marker signatures, rather than just the word of a dealer.

Paul

Philip
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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-07-2007 05:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Paul, although your observation on thick black ink is correct, it might just have depended on what the requester had on hand to sign the photos?

heng44
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From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 12-07-2007 05:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for heng44   Click Here to Email heng44     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As a 'photo-man' I can not help but notice that the photo is printed reversed... too bad.
Ed

Jurg Bolli
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Posts: 545
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-07-2007 10:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jurg Bolli   Click Here to Email Jurg Bolli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all the comments. Any comments from Scott, Tahir, etc?
Jurg

Scott
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From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001

posted 12-07-2007 10:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My hunch is that these are both authentic, though like Paul I feel a bit more comfortable with the bottom one. The fat black marker is indeed an atypical writing instrument for Armstrong. Authentic Armstrongs in wide marker do exist, but they are not common at all. He had/has a definite affinity for fine-point writing instruments (and thank goodness for that).

I wonder if these may have ever had a personalization. What a shame it would be if these had a personalization and it was washed at some point. It can be argued that these are examples that would be more desirable with a personalization.

To reference a comment Mark made, if it can just be proven that these 2 signed items already were in existence ca. 1999, then that IMO would go a very long way to proving they are authentic. These do not resemble the work of the German master forger at that time and forgeries (especially non-German ones) simply did not look this good that long ago.

While the fat marker makes it much more difficult to authenticate these, IMO they both do display a good number of authentic traits. As Mark mentions, the top one does resemble an early-90s authentic style, albeit a seldom seen one. Like Paul I am somewhat curious why the styles are a bit dissimilar, but they may have been signed at different times.

mjanovec
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Posts: 3609
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 12-07-2007 11:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In case people are interested, there are three examples of circa-1993 signatures on Tony's website (referenced in this thread), where he is selling Neil-signed X-15 photos. Authenticity of these signatures is not questionable, since Neil signed these photos as part of the signing done to benefit the Flight Test Historical Foundation.

The interesting thing to note is that all three signature have significant differences in appearance, even though all three were likely signed on the same day. Anyway, these are good exemplars of how Neil was signing, circa 1993.

Scott
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Posts: 3295
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001

posted 12-07-2007 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott   Click Here to Email Scott     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark,

Thanks for that link! It is interesting how the multisigned 11x14's Armstrong somewhat resembles the signature on the top color photo (in this thread) and the multisigned 8x10's Armstrong somewhat resembles the signature on the bottom color photo. The underscore on the top color photo's signature (on this page) is unusual-looking but authentic underscore aberrations such as this do exist. It appears to be very likely that both of these examples are authentic (IMO).

Jurg Bolli
Member

Posts: 545
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-07-2007 12:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jurg Bolli   Click Here to Email Jurg Bolli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some background on mine, the second photo:

When the book "Full Moon" by Michael Light came out in 1999, Harrison Schmitt signed some books at the bookstore "Page One" here in Albuquerque, and I bought quite a few. I traded some of these signed books with Donnis Willis at Lunar Legacies at the end of 1999 or early 2000. I asked him only in 2003 for a COA, it is dated 2003.

I personally have no doubt on the authenticity since I have dealt with Donnis since the early 1990's, and I have always trusted him with my life. I have talked to him in person about Armstrong's signature, and he mentioned that he has seen hundreds if not thousands of them, and that he can tell a real one from a fake.

In short, I have been in possession of this photo for close to 8 years. Also, the signature itself has some traits that I recognize from other signatures. Of course I was not there when these were signed.

Jurg

Jurg Bolli
Member

Posts: 545
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-07-2007 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jurg Bolli   Click Here to Email Jurg Bolli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Scott:
It is interesting how the multisigned 11x14's Armstrong somewhat resembles the signature on the top color photo (in this thread) and the multisigned 8x10's Armstrong somewhat resembles the signature on the bottom color photo.
I was surprised at the resemblance myself, Scott when I looked at the two different sized photos.

Jurg

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