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  3/15: Walt Cunningham dinner and talk (Pontefract) (Page 3)

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Author Topic:   3/15: Walt Cunningham dinner and talk (Pontefract)
Tykeanaut
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From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008

posted 01-25-2013 04:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tykeanaut   Click Here to Email Tykeanaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Robert too. It is a real shame but other avenues for funding perhaps need to be explored?

johnpslater
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From: torquay
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posted 01-25-2013 06:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnpslater   Click Here to Email johnpslater     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
But requiring a minimum number of ticket sales to guarantee an event going forward is less ideal than funding the events through other means and then using ticket sales (whatever ticket sales) to recuperate costs and start funding the next event.
Do you think he doesn't apply for funding? There must be thousands applying to the same funders as Ken and I would think they will only have so much money to give out so they possibly look at how good a cause it is, the need for it and the benefits to the surrounding community? It can't be as easy as some of you suggest.

David Bryant
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posted 01-25-2013 06:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for David Bryant   Click Here to Email David Bryant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know some of you will find this hard to believe, but it's a fact that the majority of Autographica events are seen as 'loss leaders' by Dave and Jason (and Paul!). Their motivation in bringing astronauts over has largely been their personal wish to meet them socially/professionally: they pay up-front and worry about selling tickets afterwards.

I'm not sure whether there really is any such thing as a 100% altruistic action: even Mother Theresa did what she did partly in expectation of a post-life reward. (Yes: I do know three women who worked for her: that is their opinion, not mine!)

I guess fundamentally we should be grateful to anyone (whether Mr. Willoughby, or Autographica) who has allowed so many of us to meet our heroes: but let's not forget there is always a personal motive involved and also that some people are just better at organisation than others.

Tykeanaut
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From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
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posted 01-25-2013 09:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tykeanaut   Click Here to Email Tykeanaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by johnpslater:
Do you think he doesn't apply for funding?
If you are referring to me? Then no, I know he applies for funding. My post did state "other avenues of funding".

Ken has organised some great evenings in Pontefract which those of us attended fully enjoyed and appreciated. Perhaps alas the economic bubble has now burst?

rgarner
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From: Liverpool, United Kingdom
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posted 01-25-2013 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by johnpslater:
Do you think he doesn't apply for funding?
Applying for funding is fine, but what do the funders get in return? I can't see much of an opportunity here.

Buel
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From: UK
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posted 01-25-2013 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buel   Click Here to Email Buel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by David Bryant:
I guess fundamentally we should be grateful to anyone (whether Mr. Willoughby, or Autographica) who has allowed so many of us to meet our heroes: but let's not forget there is always a personal motive involved and also that some people are just better at organisation than others.
For what it's worth, I though the above stated the situation perfectly.

Also Mr. Pearlman spoke/wrote sense too.

johnpslater
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From: torquay
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posted 01-25-2013 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnpslater   Click Here to Email johnpslater     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am getting a bit fed up of the snide and nasty things on here! I am grateful to Autographica, Ken and Aileen for giving me the opportunity to meet Apollo astronauts.

I, personally prefer the events at Pontefract because I think they are more relaxed and friendly but also think Autographica is a brilliant event! These are totally different and cannot be compared!

The Apollo astronauts, I have said this before will not be coming over here much longer so those of us who are interested should take the opportunity meet them before it's too late! I really do find it strange that only a few people were interested in meeting Walt, we may never get another chance? I think we should all support these events before it's too late!

Buel
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posted 01-26-2013 01:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buel   Click Here to Email Buel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, I think we agree but what more can we do apart from send our cheques?

Tykeanaut
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posted 01-26-2013 04:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tykeanaut   Click Here to Email Tykeanaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Supermarkets seem to like to get involved in local educational events, the ESA, or longer term perhaps Lottery Funding?

Maybe these have already been looked at?

Apollo14LMP
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posted 01-26-2013 05:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Apollo14LMP   Click Here to Email Apollo14LMP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ken has done a gret job of bringing the Apollo astronauts over here.

I was lucky to meet a few I hadn't met. Haise didn't get to walk on the Moon - that event was well attended if my memory serves me correctly.

Times are hard folks... that and the fact Walt has attended many events in the past may be a factor. Expenses and fees rising?

I went to meet Armstrong and Aldrin in Dublin a few years ago - November time - bore in mind flights, hotels, tickets were paid for up front and event could quite easily have been cancelled - a chance I was prepared to take.

Cancelling events may leave a bad taste for some people - chance you take really with this type of event?

Might try to get the cash to make this one after all, if it is going ahead.

crash
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posted 01-26-2013 05:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for crash   Click Here to Email crash     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm fairly sure that nearly all avenues have been looked at. These events do not fail due to lack of effort by the organisers. It defies logic to think that someone would come up with a great idea and then do the bare minimum to ensure its success.

Like everyone, I am surprised at the lack of interest nationwide, but as an indicator I have one work colleague who lives within minutes of the school who has no interest whatsoever, and he remembers watching these guys on television. Plus he works within the aviation industry which usually lends itself to a curiosity, if not interest, in all things Space.

Rick Mulheirn
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posted 01-26-2013 05:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think the reasons for the failure to pull off the Walt Cunningham event are many and varied. The majority have been touched upon here and I am neither wiling nor prepared to rake over the same old coals once more.

Let us not lose sight ladies and gentlemen that Ken is not a newbie at this kind of thing. To suggest his organisational skills are lacking is patronising and insulting and are made all too often by folk who have never done it.

If I may paraphrase an old saying appropriate in this instance, "Those that can do, those that can't teach" ...or should that be preach?

He has managed seven events in the recent past so I think it safe to say, he knows what he is doing.

Ken does have some sources of funding available to him however, he has used them previously, and the nature of these sources means that he cannot call upon them repeatedly. He must wait two or three years before making further applications.

He has also been promised funding from schools and businesses only to discover they have very short pockets when it comes down to it; everybody it seems is interested and wants to meet these guys at their school or business ...but they want it all for free.

The only people that do eventually get to meet our heroes for free are the thousands of school kids that the astronauts talk to, the vast majority of whom could not afford to make the trip to Autographica, let alone pay for an autograph.

That I know is Ken's "ulterior motive" and one I wholeheartedly endorse.

This is a set back; Ken has had a number of those over the years. His methods have worked in the past and something tells me they will work again in the future, but only if everybody with even the slightest interest in meeting these guys gets behind him.

Apollo14LMP
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posted 01-26-2013 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Apollo14LMP   Click Here to Email Apollo14LMP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rick I agree you with in full...

Is there any need to spoil this hobby by making and attempting to make personal snide comments? Why not just support the event that people are bringing to you with no financial gain?

I have travelled Europe wide to attend these events. If it gets called off, you get your money back - hotels and flights? Been there myself, a chance you take.

We laughed when we were stuck in Dublin all day after Neil Armstrong meeting (2003) when the Ryanair 737 packed in. We incurred additional costs so what? What do people want, home visits from Apollo astronauts?

Ken, Rick and others involved in this are doing you ALL a big favour, so what if they get to meet their guest personally and for longer than the wider public. They deserve this for their time and trouble. Some people?

rgarner
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From: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 01-26-2013 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could charge for traders to have a stall. That could bring in some extra funds and would be worth the money I would think. The problem with no profit events is that you are working at a loss (which is fine, but should the event organiser really be left out of pocked for their trouble? I don't think so). Ticket sales, stalls, and maybe some leaflets for business or something. There are plenty of ways to make money other than just tickets and autographs. I'm not saying that Ken has done a bad job or anything, just raising the possibility of more funding options.

OWL
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From: United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 01-26-2013 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for OWL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am dismayed by the unkind comments from fellow member. We can and should take constructive criticism from others but to take enjoyment from others misfortune is not what collectSPACE is about.

Let us all look to the positives and spread the word around to non-collectSPACE members that astronauts do come to the UK, conduct interesting and inspirational talks and sign autographs.

We all need to spread the word to the general public and all events in the UK would benefit.

Tykeanaut
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From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
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posted 01-26-2013 10:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tykeanaut   Click Here to Email Tykeanaut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Who is taking enjoyment from Ken's misfortune? I think we are all just trying to offer ideas and support aren't we? I think you are confusing opinions with prejudice perhaps? Like everyone else I am very disappointed, especially for Ken who puts in a heck of a lot of hard work to organise these great evenings in Pontefract.

rgarner
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From: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 01-26-2013 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Tykeanaut. I've not seen any such insult - just people trying to help.

OWL
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From: United Kingdom
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posted 01-26-2013 10:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for OWL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The comment was from one individual regarding Walt coming to Autographica, but the comment has since been removed.

David Bryant
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From: Norfolk UK
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posted 01-26-2013 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David Bryant   Click Here to Email David Bryant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since mine was the only posting removed, I assume that's the one referred to: but how it could be perceived as an insult is beyond me! I merely pointed out that Walt Cunningham has now been announced for Autographica, demonstrating (as Robert Pearlman mentioned earlier) that the appropriate funding strategy is more likely to produce a result.

rgarner
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From: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 01-26-2013 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Autographica is a group of chaps from my understanding and they bring in actors as well as astronauts - I think it is less about encouraging space exploration and more about meeting those with celeb status.

I expect that has quite a big impact. Who wouldn't want to meet Walt and one of the Bond girls?

I think the idea of a lecture and a meal is very old fashioned (which I like) but not everyone will appreciate, or be willing to pay for that.

There is a lot more to this than simple funding I think. Point being, Ken has done great with what he has to work with.

David Bryant
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From: Norfolk UK
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posted 01-26-2013 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David Bryant   Click Here to Email David Bryant     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry, Mr Garner: if you really believe that, you know NOTHING about Dave, Jason, Paul and their motivation. These guys are total enthusiasts.

rgarner
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Posts: 261
From: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 01-26-2013 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didn't claim to know them, nor did I claim that they are not enthusiasts. But the fact remains that they DO cater to actors as well as astronauts and it pays off. I simply stated a fact - one that nobody can deny.

Apologies if it offended you in any way, I can assure you that was not my intention.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 01-26-2013 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As this event is now cancelled, I'm going to leave it open through the remainder of the evening (EST) and then close it to further replies.

So if you have something that must absolutely be said (and is appropriate and pertinent to the discussion), you have a few more hours to do so. Otherwise, what's done is done.

Apollo14LMP
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posted 01-26-2013 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Apollo14LMP   Click Here to Email Apollo14LMP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, is the event now cancelled?

Buel
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From: UK
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posted 01-26-2013 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buel   Click Here to Email Buel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Isn't this the perfect thread for people to offer new/different ways of funding any such future shows, which can only be of potential help?

Also, has anyone confirmed that it is definitely off?

moorouge
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posted 01-27-2013 01:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for moorouge   Click Here to Email moorouge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is this event cancelled? Perhaps not as I've had a mail from KW asking if Al Worden would be an acceptable replacement. Perhaps Rick can enlighten us further.

Rick Mulheirn
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posted 01-27-2013 03:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Walt is definitely off. Ken is working on an alternate; Al Worden. I'm up for it.


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