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Author
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Topic: 4/4: BIS - Moon landings Fact or Fiction? (UK)
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GoesTo11
Member Posts: 1309
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 01-14-2012 01:29 PM
   
quote:
Originally posted by gliderpilotuk:
I agree, it "need not", but it can. This could be the opportunity to debunk the ridiculous conspiracy theory once and for all.[B]
Yeah, not likely. If we know anything about conspiracy enthusiasts, from the Moon to the Grassy Knoll to 9/11, it's that they will believe what they want to no matter what. There's no "de-bunking" these people.What's dismaying about this particular episode is that an organization that has dedicated the better part of a century toward education about space exploration and advocacy of expanding humanity's horizons has chosen to give a stage and a microphone to a crank, apparently in the interest of "balance." It's correct that this can only be resolved by the BIS membership, and that this is an entirely observational discussion. But I think it's worth noting in this context that the British Interplanetary Society was founded in 1933... nearly a quarter-century before Sputnik. The notion of people actually travelling in space was regarded then by the public at large as a fantasy of science-fiction writers and "cracked pots." They had to fight to be taken seriously. Arthur C. Clarke was one of the BIS's earliest members. I wonder what he'd think of this. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 01-15-2012 10:29 AM
The event is still being billed in the latest Spaceflight edition (February). |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-15-2012 10:47 AM
On a lighter note, Brian Blessed is due to give a talk at the BIS on Feb 9th. I'm worried though that some will believe this gives credence to the existence of Blake's Seven, Flash Gordon and Doctor Who  |
Paul23
Member Posts: 836
From: South East, UK
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 01-16-2012 04:41 AM
That will be a very entertaining evening. I went to an autograph signing last summer that he did where he talked briefly about his astronaut training in Russia (amongst many other things), I honestly can't remember the last time I laughed so much! |
p51
Member Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted 01-16-2012 09:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by gliderpilotuk:
On a lighter note, Brian Blessed is due to give a talk at the BIS on Feb 9th.
The funny thing to me is that at one point, astronauts did public appearances at sci-fi conventions regularly. Al Worden told the story of being at one with Deforest Kelly (Doctor McCoy on Star Trek) in a panel discussion when someone asked about the real effects of being in space. When Al started to answer, she pointed to Kelly and replied, "No, I wanted HIM to answer, the one who's been in space a lot!" I have read of other similar stories of astronauts being at these events. I'm not sure when sci-fi events stopped having real space travelers at sci-fi conventions but I never heard of that happening as early as the mid-1980s. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-16-2012 10:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by p51:
I'm not sure when sci-fi events stopped having real space travelers at sci-fi conventions...
They didn't; Apollo and shuttle astronauts have continued to appear at sci-fi conventions throughout the time collectSPACE has been tracking astronaut appearances (1999 through today). |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-17-2012 10:49 AM
An "apology" issued by the BIS to members today shows how quick people here and elsewhere are to jumpt to judgement. As this is a private email I'm not going to quote it verbatim, but suffice to say that the aim HAD BEEN to discuss JUST the photographic evidence from the Apollo Moon Landings and to rebut any hoax theories based on suggested anomalies in these photographs. The summary from Marcus Allen did not reflect this limted scope and got published without review. He, in turn, has apologised to the BIS.I respect the BIS for acknowledging this administrative error that has caused unnecessary alarm and accusations. Can we now conclude this and move on? |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 01-17-2012 11:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by gliderpilotuk:
...HAD BEEN to discuss JUST the photographic evidence from the Apollo Moon Landings and to rebut any hoax theories based on suggested anomalies in these photographs. The summary from Marcus Allen did not reflect this limited scope and got published without review
I am a bit confused by this latest post. Are you saying that Marcus Allen is now going to rebut moon hoaxers with photographic evidence? If this is the case. it is quite an about face for Mr. Allen. Or was BIS going to have a discussion, panel whatever with Mr. Allen to rebut what he has been saying about the moon landings being a hoax based on photographic evidence from the period? If this is the case, I still find it disquieting that a learned organization needed to have a "hoaxer" join in and by lending him a platform, possibly bestow some credibility on his views. |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-17-2012 11:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by fredtrav:
Or was BIS going to have a discussion, panel whatever with Mr. Allen to rebut what he has been saying about the moon landings being a hoax based on photographic evidence from the period?
You got it! He was "invited to explain the photographic anomalies" - only. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-17-2012 11:52 AM
But there are no photographic anomalies; there are only people who misunderstand what they are looking at when they see the photos. |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 01-17-2012 12:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by gliderpilotuk:
You got it! He was "invited to explain the photographic anomalies" - only.
The problem with having a discussion with Mr. Allen is you are not going to change his mind. The only way to do that would be to load him in a spaceship fly him to the moon and show him where we left objects. Even then, he would probably claim he was hypnotized or drugged and it was all on a sound stage or done with computer generated effects. Remember there are still people who believe the earth is flat!This is a BIS matter and I hope members object vehemently to giving over their forum to espouse his views and thus possibly give him a measure of legitimacy. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-17-2012 12:17 PM
Maybe they can devote a future forum to reviewing photographic evidence that the earth is flat. I bet if they put their heads to it, they could demonstrate it's not actually flat.  |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 01-17-2012 02:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by gliderpilotuk:
Can we now conclude this and move on?
I'm behind you 100%. Close this thread otherwise posters will start questioning the BIS *real* intentions (nothing personal fredtrav!). And the email from the BIS is private in the sense that if you're a member, you've received it.
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fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 01-17-2012 04:00 PM
I am not questioning BIS's intentions at all, just their judgement or lack thereof. Overall they are a wonderful group and I enjoy reading Spaceflight. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3120
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-17-2012 08:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cspg:
And the email from the BIS is private in the sense that if you're a member, you've received it.
What email? I've been a member of the BIS for 41 years and I haven't received any email about this. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-18-2012 07:57 AM
For the record, here is the text of the statement by British Interplanetary Society president-elect and chair of the events action group, Alistair Scott. An Apology from the Council of the British Interplanetary Society for the Mistaken Announcement of the 'Apollo Moon Landing - Fact or Fiction?' LectureThe Events Action Group of the British Interplanetary Society (BIS) must take full responsibility and must apologise for the incorrect announcement of the evening lecture above, planned for 4 April 2012. The original intention had been to discuss the photographic evidence from the Apollo Moon Landings and rebut any hoax theories that are based on suggested anomalies in these photographs. Marcus Allen was invited to explain these anomalies, but the summary he supplied for the announcement was not what was agreed and wrongly gave the impression that he would, at the invitation of the BIS, be presenting the whole hoax theory! This was certainly not the case and the BIS has already received an apology from Marcus Allen for the upset he has caused by, in haste, submitting the wrong brief. The BIS does not and has never given credence to any suggestions that the Apollo Programme did not land men on the Moon or was in any sense a hoax. As you know the British Interplanetary Society has been a well-known proponent of Moon exploration since the 1930s and has supported and promoted spaceflight and space travel from the very beginning, designing some of the first ever moon rockets and landers. It will continue to do so and will look to the future and propose and pursue exciting new projects to save this planet and explore the universe in search of new worlds capable of supporting human life. Project Icarus, World Ships and Project Boreas are excellent examples of the BIS' capabilities and are obvious proof of its intentions in the longer term. In order to ensure that such misleading announcements will never be made again, the BIS is reviewing its procedures and will be introducing an approval system which will require at least 3 Council Members to clear every event announcement before it goes to print or out on the website. The BIS is now considering whether to restructure the Apollo Moon Landing lecture for the evening of 4 April or find a new subject, and speaker, altogether. We hope this meets with your approval and once again apologise for any upset this has caused. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 01-18-2012 08:37 AM
Well they published the wrong information a few times, don't they check or have proof-readers at the BIS? |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 01-18-2012 03:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
What email? I've been a member of the BIS for 41 years and I haven't received any email about this.
So I'm guessing you don't receive their e-newsletter either, Odyssey?It must have been during the renewal process of my membership that I provided my email address- can't remember the details. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3120
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-18-2012 06:39 PM
One of the advantages of direct debit is that you don't have to fill in forms every year, but my Fellowship has been renewed this way since before emails had been invented. I have taken steps to rectify the situation...By the way, if I had been the late Leslie Nielsen, I might have replied: No, I haven't been getting the e-newsletter. And don't call me Odyssey. |
Gilbert
Member Posts: 1328
From: Carrollton, GA USA
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 01-19-2012 06:22 AM
Ah, there's nothing like Airplane humor in the morning. Love it! |
David Bryant
Member Posts: 986
From: Norfolk UK
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted 01-19-2012 07:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by GoesTo11:
Arthur C. Clarke was one of the BIS's earliest members. I wonder what he'd think of this.
We can only guess what he'd think: but bear in mind that he was a firm believer in 'ultraterrestrials' and that he considered 'Childhood's End' to be not entirely a work of fiction! |
Gilbert
Member Posts: 1328
From: Carrollton, GA USA
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 01-19-2012 12:30 PM
Sir Arthur also said, “Apollo may be the only achievement for which our generation is remembered a thousand years from now." |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42986
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-02-2012 01:05 PM
I visited the British Interplanetary Society's website today and was surprised to see this same event promoted on their front page. The lecture, "Perceived Anomalies in the Apollo Lunar Surface Images," is still going forward with Marcus Allen but with the addition of Jerry Stone to rebut Allen's claims. Jerry Stone runs Spaceflight UK. He has given presentations on astronomy and space exploration all over the UK and abroad since the time of the first Moon landings. He also presents space workshops for schools where questions on the Apollo Missions are often being raised. The addition of Stone to the event is certainly an improvement, but I still don't see the upside of BIS giving the moon hoax a platform. |
Gilbert
Member Posts: 1328
From: Carrollton, GA USA
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 02-02-2012 02:38 PM
Unbelievable! |
Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 968
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 02-02-2012 03:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
I still don't see the upside of BIS giving the moon hoax a platform.
Could be a ploy by the Society to try and ramp up some publicity? They sure have stirred up a hornet's nest in here.  |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 02-03-2012 03:56 AM
Unbelievably great - booked my ticket. I guess there'll be no need to report back on the content of the lecture as I don't want to be responsible for a wave of heart attacks. |
robsouth
Member Posts: 769
From: West Midlands, UK
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 02-03-2012 11:11 AM
Men have walked on the moon end of story, why waste time on this nonsense. |
Philip
Member Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 02-12-2012 07:51 AM
Most Apollo landing sites have been photographed by the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter in 2009, they might end the "lecture" with those photos. |
spaceman
Member Posts: 1104
From: Walsall, West Midlands, UK
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 03-31-2012 12:53 PM
Now the National Space Centre in Leicester is at it. With 14 days of the Fake Debate.Why is there a need to debate it at all? And if there is why here at this venue? Do the museums/science centres in the U.S feel the need to do it? |
Captain Apollo
Member Posts: 260
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 04-07-2012 04:35 PM
Unfortunately rational argument with Marcus Allen is impossible, hence the event would be pointless. |
Richard Easton
Member Posts: 175
From: Winnetka, IL USA
Registered: Jun 2006
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posted 04-12-2012 07:23 PM
Did anyone attend this? What were your thoughts about it? |
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