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Author
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Topic: Apollo 11 flown changeable date stamp
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NAAmodel#240
Member Posts: 353
From: Boston, Mass.
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 03-09-2019 11:32 AM
   
In the Post Office Department release dated July 20, 1969, astronauts "have been instructed how to change the date in the postmark to correspond with the date of the cancellation. They are carrying a small ink pad and extra dates."Do collectors believe the circle date stamp used was changeable and should they have altered the date to reflect that the "Moon cover" was cancelled on July 22nd? |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3444
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-09-2019 03:28 PM
I think for "ceremonial" purposes, since the date stamper had a "Moon Landing USA" impression, it might had been best to highlight the actual lunar landing on July 20th instead of two days later. In fact, on July 22, Armstrong and Aldrin were off the lunar surface, joined up with Collins in the command ship, and were heading back home. It just wouldn't seem "lunar landing" historically proper to hand stamp the envelope on the 22nd, two days afterwards.
Another reason, though, could be a very simple one; Perhaps the crewmen didn't want to spend the time changing the date stamper in the first place. And since man's first lunar landing had been on the 20th, just keep it at that! The special hand cancel kit did contain changeable date slugs, in a wooden retainer rack, and with supposedly handling tweezers that had been inserted in the last pocket of the kit. But Collins said, after the flight, that he didn't recall ever seeing nor using any tweezers. It might be interesting to note that the kit's ink pad was sealed in plastic to prevent the ink from drying out in the dessicating low-pressure oxygen atmosphere of the command module spacecraft.
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oly
Member Posts: 1383
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 03-09-2019 05:49 PM
Using this NASA Apollo 11 timeline as reference, July 20 and 21 were busy periods for the Apollo 11 crew, with most of July 21 taken up on the lunar surface doing mission related work, and the last task recorded on the 21st being the LM ascent stage jettison. If the stamp kit was stowed within the command module, then the earliest opportunity for the crew to use the stamp would have been July 22. As the stamp was post office issued equipment, it may not be correct to back date the stamp cancellation issue. As an additional thought, does this mean that the Apollo 11 command module was an official USPS post office? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 48457
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-09-2019 06:18 PM
The original plan had been for the letter to be transferred to Eagle and postmarked while on the surface of the moon. Instead, only the die for the 10 cent First Man on the Moon stamp was transferred to Eagle. The postmark kit remained in lunar orbit.According to the Moon Landing Scott C76 Cachet Catalog: ...if the Apollo 11 mission ran behind schedule, the astronauts had been instructed to change the date in the postmark to correspond to the date of cancellation. Depending on what exactly was said, the Apollo 11 crew may have been instructed to only change the date if the mission was delayed, which would have changed the date of the moon landing, as the U.S. Postal Department was under the impression at the time that the postmark would be applied on the surface of the moon. NASA had decided differently, so the date remained set for July 20. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3444
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-09-2019 07:26 PM
That is correct, Robert, as the cancel device kit did remain aboard CM-107 during the flight, while the airmail stamp die was transferred over to LM-5. With such a short and very busy lunar stay, though, I just couldn't see Armstrong and Aldrin having time to fool with postmarking the lunar envelope. But of course, if the landing day had been delayed to another day, it would make sense for a date changeover. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 754
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 03-16-2019 04:10 AM
Oly, Apollo 15 commander Dave Scott signed a cover with Apollo 15 trial cancellation as "First Postmaster on the Moon".  Neil Armstrong remarked on his Apollo 11 trial cancellation, which recently was sold at Heritage Auctions: "Stamped in the flight plan at the time that the Post office stamp was cancelled". If we take Neil's modesty under account, this means, Neil postmarked the official Apollo 11 Moon letter as well as the three trial cancellations. Only a single man who had trained this could manage so good cancellations. Am I right? Neil Armstrong was the first postmaster in space. |
NAAmodel#240
Member Posts: 353
From: Boston, Mass.
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 03-18-2019 02:19 PM
If the Postmaster is the manager of the facility that applies an official postmark then, “Yes”. There is some question, at least in my mind however, about who applied the cancels. It might have been any one or all three together. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 754
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 03-18-2019 03:34 PM
According to the Moon Landing Scott C76 Cachet Catalog (pages 6, 7) the USPS announcement included "...that the Moon letter would bear a die proof of the commemorative stamp and would be hand canceled by Moon explorers Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin with a special postmark."When Buzz Aldrin sold his trial cancellation at auction, he did not mention who postmarked it. We all know about Neil Armstrong's modesty. He did not want to get one more "first." Last but not least: With Apollo 15 putting the postmark on the Moon cover was task of the commander. |
eurospace
Member Posts: 2663
From: Berlin, Germany
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 03-18-2019 06:29 PM
The German postal service will commemorate the first space postmaster and the cancellation with a pictorial postmarker used on 26 April 2019 during the AeroBerlin 2019 competitive aero- and astrophilatelic philatelic exhibition. The postmarker shows the "Moon Landing" cancellation as used by Neil Armstrong. This flown space cover as well as one of the trial cancels used by Armstrong to test the device will both be shown there as part of Walter M. Hopferwieser's legendary collection. For more information, visit the exhibition's website.  |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 754
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 03-22-2019 06:16 PM
Can you agree with my conclusions? |
NAAmodel#240
Member Posts: 353
From: Boston, Mass.
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 03-25-2019 04:32 PM
Thank you all for the discussion. From it I conclude (based on Ken's level of certainty) that the cancelling device did have a changeable date. Instead of going to the effort to change the date to July 22nd the die proof was instead backdated to the day of the Moon landing.I wouldn't be an Astrophilatelist if I didn't point out that the first step on the Moon occurred at nearly 3AM (GMT) on July 21st. We celebrate the event on July 20th because the controlling station in Houston had not yet reached midnight. Who applied the postmark seems unresolved. Some say it was Aldrin, some say Armstrong, and others suggest all three together. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 754
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 03-26-2019 03:05 AM
David, I think we can rule out all three together. How can you put one postmark in three hands for cancelling? Moreover, all 4 cancellations are perfect. Compare it with Apollo 15 Moon letter. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 754
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 04-02-2019 04:05 AM
Are there any arguments in favour of Aldrin? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 48457
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-02-2019 07:49 AM
Unless Buzz Aldrin and/or Michael Collins confirms who applied the postmarks, I would suggest not making any conclusions. |
NAAmodel#240
Member Posts: 353
From: Boston, Mass.
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 04-09-2019 08:54 PM
Conclusive proof may never emerge. Belmont Faries, writing one of the most accurate and detailed account for the Moon Landing stamp (S.P.A. Journal Vol 34 No 7) in March 1972 said, "It was postmarked on July 22, after the Eagle had rejoined the Columbia, with all three astronauts holding the canceler. No attempt was made to change the date." |
NAAmodel#240
Member Posts: 353
From: Boston, Mass.
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 04-14-2019 08:03 AM
While researching an article on the Moon landing stamp in the archives at BEP I ran across this: FOR RECORDS - The envelope bearing the die proof of the 10-cent Moon Landing commemorative stamp was canceled between 10:00 and 12:00 a.m. (EDT) July 22, 1969 by ALL THREE ASTRONAUTS (Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins) on the way back to earth. It showed the cancellation MOON LANDING U S A JULY 20, 1969. V. Brizendine (This information given to VB by Mr. Allaway of NASA). |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 754
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 04-16-2019 04:43 PM
That is exactly what Neil Armstrong said. For me it seems impossible that three humans make stamp a postmark together. More likely, one of them used the stamp whereas the other two held the envelope. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 754
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 06-02-2022 11:29 AM
Finally we learned that Mike Collins did the four great cancellations. The flown piece is accompanied by an LOA on Michael Collins' personal Apollo 11 letterhead reads: "This small clipping from the Command Module flight plan book was the result of my testing the cancellation of a postal service cover with a new stamp issue. I wanted to get a full, non-smudged imprint, so I practiced (I believe three times) before actually doing the cancellation. I believe this was done early on the return trip to earth." |
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