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  Help with pilots name.

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Author Topic:   Help with pilots name.
machbusterman
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Posts: 1657
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004

posted 06-14-2005 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can anyone help me with the name of the pilot who would have flown the Ryan X-13 Vertijet on the date the cover below was cancelled? I'd like to have the details of the flight printed on a card to insert into the cover.

Many thanks in advance,

Derek

micropooz
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Posts: 1239
From: Washington, DC, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 06-14-2005 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for micropooz   Click Here to Email micropooz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Derek-

I found some words on the flight in Jay Miller's "The X-Planes X-1 to X-31" that narrows the pool of possible pilots (I like to alliterate a lot) to three: Lou Everett, Bill Immenschuh, or "Pete" Girard, all of Ryan Aircraft. I'll scan the words about the flight and e-mail them to you (too much to type).

DD

spaceman
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Posts: 922
From: Walsall, West Midlands, UK
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 06-14-2005 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaceman   Click Here to Email spaceman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Derek, more info available here: www.spacephilatelics.com/sqX13flwn.html
there is some question as to whether any covers were flown,
Nick.

[This message has been edited by spaceman (edited June 14, 2005).]

albatron@aol.com
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posted 06-14-2005 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for albatron@aol.com   Click Here to Email albatron@aol.com     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by spaceman:
Derek, more info available here: www.spacephilatelics.com/sqX13flwn.html
there is some question as to whether any covers were flown,
Nick.

[This message has been edited by spaceman (edited June 14, 2005).]



Oh no - here we go again. Didnt Virgil Givens also fly it?

Al

micropooz
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Posts: 1239
From: Washington, DC, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 06-14-2005 08:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for micropooz   Click Here to Email micropooz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by albatron@aol.com:

Oh no - here we go again.
Al


Hooboy - at least it wasn't me this time, Al!!!

DD

albatron@aol.com
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posted 06-14-2005 10:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for albatron@aol.com   Click Here to Email albatron@aol.com     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
<ROFL>!!

machbusterman
Member

Posts: 1657
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004

posted 06-15-2005 07:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks guys!! I'm a bit miffed to read what Pete Girard said about the cover being unflown (to his knowledge). I paid $35 for this cover and to be honest if the cover was flown but not sanctioned then I don't care but if the cover wasn't flown then I'll be looking to get my money back.

I've another "flown" cover which is causing concern also. On the cachet of the cover below it states that the cover was flown aboard the 747 SCA on the ferry/acceptance flight from Seattle to Edwards AFB.

I recently sent the cover to Fitz Fulton and in my letter to him asked if he'd kindly sign it for me. Imagine my surprise when he responded "Derek, I will not sign this cover. No covers were flown and none were authorised to have been flown by me on this flight. Sorry, Fitz". I bought this cover on eBay for $1 so I have not lost out financially but its certainly making me wary about buying any "flown" covers in the future.

Best regards, Derek

micropooz
Member

Posts: 1239
From: Washington, DC, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 06-15-2005 07:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for micropooz   Click Here to Email micropooz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not surprising that they would deny it - this flight was only two years after NASA put out a reg prohibiting the carry of any covers on flights. And with the reg being that fresh in the crew's mind, they probably didn't. However, the SCA is a BIG airplane and that may have allowed someone else to stow the covers aboard.

You might try writing to Bob Rank, who produced the Space Voyager Cachets. Ask him what documentation he has that says these were flown. Bob is pretty quixotic, so you may or may not get an answer. His address is:

Rank, Robert G
545 41st St
Union City, NJ 07087-2604.

Best,
DD

eurospace
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Posts: 2275
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 06-15-2005 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eurospace   Click Here to Email eurospace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Or ask the other pilot (Tom McMurtry) about what he has to say about it (I think Vic Horton is no longer with us).

------------------
Jürgen P Esders
Berlin, Germany
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Astroaddies

machbusterman
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Posts: 1657
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004

posted 06-15-2005 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dennis,

Thanks for the address and your insight into these covers.

I recently wrote to Tom McMurtry although I did not send him that cover as it was on its way back from Fulton at the time. If he responds I will write him and ask him about the cover.

As an aside, I received an email today from Bob McLeod along with a scan of his flown ALT/SCA covers. It is with Bob's permission that I have posted the scan of his covers below.

I cannot for the life of me imagine that three different cover servicers who have each indicated that their covers were flown are wrong. Whatever the truth, it would be interesting to find out from the others who flew on that flight who it was that carried the covers onboard.

What is interesting is that one of the covers from an earlier SCA flight at Seattle was indeed flown and has been certified as such by Fitz Fulton.

Regards, Derek

micropooz
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Posts: 1239
From: Washington, DC, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 06-15-2005 03:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for micropooz   Click Here to Email micropooz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The subtle distinction on the lower cover (from 1976) is that this was a Boeing flight, not a NASA flight. The Boeing pilot may have been able to freely carry a cover, whereas a NASA pilot (like Fitz) is prohibited.

Bob M
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Posts: 1367
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 06-17-2005 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob M   Click Here to Email Bob M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dennis is right. The bottom flown cover originated from Boeing/Seattle and, as I remember, I sent it to the pilot (Bennett) there to be flown. This was in December 1976 and before the 747/SCA was handed over to NASA and before these other covers were flown on Jan. 17, 1977.

I may possibly have a solution to the question of who handled the 1,000 plus covers that are said to have flown on the Jan. 14th SCA delivery flight. Vic Horton was one of the usual SCA crewmen and, as I remember, there was a collector back at that time by the name of Tim Horton (I believe his name was Tim). Anyway, I remember him telling me that he was related to Vic Horton (his uncle perhaps) and maybe with that "in" had his favorite uncle stash some covers on board the 747/SCA that were later distributed to at least 3 cover dealers: Boudwin, Rank/Space Voyage and Stan Henderson of 3-Muscateers. Whatever actually occured, the "Horton Theory" is as good as any & is the best I can come up with <G>.

One good thing about space covers is that they can often have interesting stories behind them.

Bob Mc.

micropooz
Member

Posts: 1239
From: Washington, DC, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 06-29-2005 06:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for micropooz   Click Here to Email micropooz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to add another piece to the puzzle here - I just ran across a Space Voyager (Rank) cacheted cover that says it was flown on the Dec. 2, 1976 SCA flight (same date as Derek's with the typed cachet). It says that there were 1050 covers flown on this flight (same number as the Space Voyager cachet shows for the Jan 14, 1977 flight). Seems like a standard number...

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