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  STS-51L crew-issued and flown mission patches (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   STS-51L crew-issued and flown mission patches
Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 11-12-2012 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For the first time, (as far as I know), the family of a member of the ill fated STS-51L Challenger crew had listed for sale, three examples out of the seven pre-flight crew issued mission patches they had. It was the family of Judy Resnik.

These patches differ from the common souvenir versions of this patch by the fact that AB Emblem used a 'white' twill backing instead of the common 'grey' twill one.

The front and back images of one of these patches on the auction sales page, shows the main body of the patch with a 'grey' twill backing, but the sew on tab has a 'white' twill backing.

The only known example of a totaly 'white' twill backing is from a patch recovered from the 'Official Flight Kit' container along with a 'flown' U.S. flag. These now make up a presentation piece which can be seen at the Smithsonian Inst. museum in Washington DC.

The three patches from this listing are now on their way to an address in Alabama, where they will be re-directed to the United Kingdom and France. When they arrive in Alabama we will find out if all three patches are identical or differ in respect of the backing twill type / colour on the main body and sew on tab for each patch.

garyd2831
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From: Syracuse, New York, USA
Registered: Oct 2009

posted 11-12-2012 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for garyd2831   Click Here to Email garyd2831     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would have love to have added one to my STS-51L collection.

I have a STS-51L patch that is signed by Greg Jarvis.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 11-12-2012 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin T. Randall:
...the family of a member of the ill fated STS-51L Challenger crew had listed for sale
Did a family member sell them or was it a friend of a family member? The description says:
These patches were given to my brother by the Resnik family...
Just asking if perhaps you learned more through your e-mail contact with the seller.

Kevin T. Randall
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Posts: 517
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 11-12-2012 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes Robert, I spent over four hours last night between 19:30pm GMT to past midnight e-mailling backwards and forwards with the seller trying to establish what these patches were, and whether they are all identical or not. I still don't know for sure even now.

Yes, the seller is related to the family through marrage and came by these three patches, (plus another which he is keeping), through the death of another family member, his brother, who was marred to Judy's sister. He only came by four patches, the other three are with another family member who is not very happy that the patches were even listed, let alone sold for the prices I bought them for. (This sale has caused a family problem).

Gonzo
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From: Lansing, MI, USA
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posted 11-13-2012 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gonzo   Click Here to Email Gonzo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kevin - did you get all three for that price?

Also, and this is just my opinion, delete it if needed, but considering that this sale has caused a family issue and the significance of these patches is indisputable, I think I'd consider returning them if that is what the family would want. Yes, I agree that they are definitely unique to a collector, but some things should stay as they are. Again, just my opinion.

Kevin T. Randall
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Posts: 517
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 11-13-2012 12:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The first two cost me just $19.99 each, the third I bought for Chris Spain, (Spaced out), at his request, as he found himself barred from bidding or Buying It Now, that will cost him $39.99, or an exchange of patches.

Returning these patches has crossed my mind, but the potential value of these patches both historically and monetary has made me think twice. If I was asked by the Resnik family, (Judy's sister Linda, the original owner), then yes, I probably would return the two I have bought. The third I would have to leave up to Chris to decide on.

Gonzo
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From: Lansing, MI, USA
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posted 11-13-2012 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gonzo   Click Here to Email Gonzo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, Kevin, for the response. And that is exactly what I was referring to - these particular patches are important historically. Considering that importance, I'd return them if that's what they want, but it's entirely up to them.

garyd2831
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From: Syracuse, New York, USA
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posted 11-13-2012 01:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for garyd2831   Click Here to Email garyd2831     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is the any record to as to how many patches and flags that were flown on STS-51L and how many were recovered?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 11-13-2012 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To the best of my knowledge, most, if not all, of the STS-51L Official Flight Kit and personal preference kits were recovered intact, still inside the lockers where they were stowed. The patches, like most of the individual items were sealed in plastic pouches.

NASA said it would return the OFK items to their respective organizations and that the PPK contents would be given to the family members. The agency also said that each state would be presented with a patch and flag that was stowed on Challenger for its ill-fated flight.

There were at least 1,000 patches and more than 2,000 flags aboard.

If I recall correctly, at least one package of 25 crew patches did separate from the cabin and was later found floating off the shore in New England. The patches were recovered, still sealed in plastic, and returned to NASA.

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 11-13-2012 01:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by garyd2831:
Is the any record to as to how many patches and flags that were flown on STS-51L and how many were recovered?
Yes probably, but I don't know how to access that information.

As far as I know the 'Official Flight Kit' was recovered as one patch and one flag was removed to make up one presentation piece which now can be seen in the Smithsonian Inst. Museum in Washington DC. This presentation piece can also be seen on crewpatches.com STS-51L page.

The 'Official Flight Kit' is currently with what is left of the Challenger at Cape Canaveral Air Force Base.

Robert Pearlman
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From: Houston, TX
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posted 11-13-2012 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin T. Randall:
The 'Official Flight Kit' is currently with what is left of the Challenger at Cape Canaveral Air Force Base.
As noted above, the OFK and PPK contents were not interred with the Challenger wreckage, according to news reports at the time. The items were returned to their owners and the family members.

For example, a large U.S. flag that was flown for a Boy Scouts troop was returned to them, and they now fly it on special occasions (Mitt Romney cited this flag in one of his campaign speeches).

There are additional STS-51L flown flag and patch displays around the nation, including one at the Frontiers of Flight Museum in Dallas, Texas. I believe another is on display in the Reagan Library in California.

On edit: Here's another, Ohio's display as exhibited at the Armstrong Air and Space Museum. And New York's is on display at the Cradle of Aviation in Garden City.

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 11-13-2012 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I stand corrected Robert.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 11-13-2012 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Exploring this a bit through Google, I've accounted for the following STS-51L flown patch and flag displays:
  • California: Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, Simi Valley
  • New Mexico: Museum of Space History, Alamogordo
  • New York: Cradle of Aviation, Garden City
  • South Carolina: State Museum, Columbia
  • Texas: Frontiers of Flight Museum, Dallas
  • Smithsonian: National Air and Space Museum
  • Onizuka Air Force Station, Calif. (a flown STS-51L patch, Air Force Satellite Control Facility patch and a large U.S. flag were on presented by NASA to the base and displayed there until its closure in 2010; current location, unknown.)
I'll add to this as I or others find additional displays...

spaced out
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From: Paris, France
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posted 11-14-2012 01:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When Kevin contacted me about this listing the only thing I had to go on was that they were originally a gift from the Resnik family. I don't think the original listing gives any hint of family conflict or any reason to hesitate when buying an example. Kevin kindly bought the third patch on my behalf, as I was blocked.

I should point out that right now we don't even know if more than one of these three patches is actually of the scarce white backing cloth variety. I also see no reason to assume at this point that these patches were recovered flown examples.

We've seen examples of STS-51L patches that came from crew members in the past (Dick Scobee's patches) although these appear to have been gray backing cloth versions. I don't believe that all the white versions went into the OFK so it wouldn't be surprising to see crew family/friend examples of this patch.

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 11-17-2012 03:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I now have very good images of these three STS-51L 'Resnik' pre-flight issued patches, both the fronts and backs.

All three patches are basically the same, with a 'grey' twill main body, and a 'white' twill sew on tab. (Though the top patch has a thicker, whiter plastic coated back, and a slightly different coloured grey border).

Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 517
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 12-17-2012 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The fourth one of these patches had just been listed and sold within 25 minuets at a start price of $199.00 and a Buy It Now of $250.00.

It was sold to a member of this forum (Mama04).

The patch shown on the listing is the middle patch shown above, not the one Maarten (Mama04) will receive.

I currently have the top and bottom patches, they are slightly different in that the grey thread around the border of the main body are two different shades of grey.

spaced out
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posted 10-14-2013 08:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I note that a white-tabbed patch was sold this weekend on eBay in original KSC packaging. This shows that at least some examples of this 'hybrid' were sold commercially.

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 10-14-2013 08:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It looks like two were sold from the same seller. The other one was 221297115269, though the same two images was used for that one too.

spaced out
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posted 10-14-2013 09:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually the first sale was me buying the patch. However, the buyer then cancelled the transaction when they saw I was an overseas buyer and then relisted it. I think Liem bought the relisted patch a couple of hours later.

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 10-14-2013 09:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes Liem was indeed the buyer of the re-listed one. Sorry you missed out Chris.

I also saw that AB Emblem STS-51L patch in the KSC packet, but didn't look closer at it because of the Buy It Now price at $12.99, (which I thought was too expensive for that one). Plus I have several examples of that type of KSC packaging with the STS-51L patch in. Wished I'd looked a lot closer now!

Interesting to see the date on the KSC packet is February 1988, two years after the event. So it looks like AB Emblem was using up older stock at that point in time.

James Brown
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From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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posted 10-14-2013 05:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Brown   Click Here to Email James Brown     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I purchased one of the Resnik white tabbed patches off of eBay about four months ago.

Liembo
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From: Bothell, WA, USA
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 10-17-2013 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Liembo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just received the patch today, I wasn't sure what had happened with the first auction, so I was concerned that it they had used the same images for both so I wasn't sure what I was getting. Here are scans of the item. The 2-88 date was a surprise as well.

The backing seems to match the top one of Kevin's scan above, with the thicker "waffle" backing.

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 10-18-2013 01:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very nice Liem! That's the fifth example of this 'crew variant' or 'hybrid' patch to be found. So a few were sold to the public, and are out there somewhere.

James, yours is identical, (with the repair to the back of that patch), to the fourth 'Resnik' one Maarten (Mama04) bought in December last year. So I assume Maarten sold you his?

James Brown
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posted 10-21-2013 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Brown   Click Here to Email James Brown     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is correct Kevin.

Liembo
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posted 10-22-2013 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Liembo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It looks like another one has appeared on eBay: 111196348212

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 10-23-2013 03:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes Liem, I spotted this one too. It will be very interesting to see what this one (No.6) fetches in an open auction?

Liembo
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From: Bothell, WA, USA
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 10-23-2013 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Liembo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I sent him a PM and said that he will probably get some back-channel offers for the patch, but to stick it out as it will likely do surprisingly well.

He indicated that, "I acquired it from a 30 year air force veteran who collected patches from all his duty stations and travels around the world. I bought his collection of over 1200 patches. Mostly squadron patches, only a few NASA patches."

Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 517
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 10-23-2013 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Liembo:
I sent him a PM and said that he will probably get some back-channel offers for the patch, but to stick it out as it will likely do surprisingly well.

Snap! (Ditto).

Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 517
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 10-24-2013 04:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think this lot No. 161128916271 was mistaken for one of these STS-51L 'crew issued hybrid' patches. The main body of this patch is identical to the ones found so far, but the 'sew on tab' is a later 'grey twill' backed one.

It had a start price of $2.99 and ended up at $42.51 with 3 bids from 2 bidders. A fourth bid of $61.51 was retracted by the loosing bidder.

The winning bidder is a member of this forum. (Sorry to of dash your hopes).

Besixdouze
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From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
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posted 10-24-2013 06:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Besixdouze   Click Here to Email Besixdouze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks like this patch (111196348212) is attracting the attention of another 0 feedback bidder. Caution advised.

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 10-24-2013 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This patch has just crossed the $100 mark with 14 bids from 5 bidders. The 0 feedback bidder has now been outbid.

Up-date: 19:00pm GMT 29th October.
This 'hybrid' patch now stands at $111.50 with 17 bids from 7 bidders. Just an hour and a half to go.

Up-date: 20:40pm GMT.
This 'hybrid' patch finished at $282.75 with 20 bids from 10 bidders. (Another zero feedback bidder won).

Liembo
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From: Bothell, WA, USA
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 10-24-2013 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Liembo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I picked up an STS-51L patch in a newer KSC packet last month I call the "mock white tab":

From the front the patch appears to be a common gray/gray unit, yet at first glance, the back appears to be a white tab/gray body unit, however closer inspection reveals that tab has a thin plastic veneer over the gray twill on the tab. An interesting curiosity if anything.

Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 517
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 10-24-2013 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also that patch has the missing star too, and has a very shiny plastic coated backing to the main body of the patch.

Besixdouze
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Posts: 190
From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Jan 2011

posted 10-29-2013 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Besixdouze   Click Here to Email Besixdouze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yet another bidder with zero feedback wins the day. It won't surprise me to see this patch re-listed.

Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 517
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 11-14-2013 09:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Besixdouze:
It won't surprise me to see this patch re-listed.
You were quite right Mike, the sixth example of this patch has just been re-listed, lot #111216155589, with a Buy It Now price of $300.00.

The zero feedback bidder did not complete payment.

Besixdouze
Member

Posts: 190
From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Jan 2011

posted 11-14-2013 10:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Besixdouze   Click Here to Email Besixdouze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Didn't hang around for very long this time though Kevin. Let's hope the seller completes.

Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 517
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 11-14-2013 11:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A few minutes short of an hour!

And we are not going to know who bought it unless he tells us, as eBay has changed every buyers and winners id's.

lunarrv15
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio, Hamilton
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 11-17-2013 05:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunarrv15   Click Here to Email lunarrv15     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is AB Emblem a vendor for U.S. Space Camp shuttle patches, for instance STS-51L?

Robert Pearlman
Editor

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From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 11-18-2013 09:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, AB Emblem supplies patches to the U.S. Space & Rocket Center. Why do you ask?

lunarrv15
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio, Hamilton
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 11-18-2013 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunarrv15   Click Here to Email lunarrv15     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I searched for any past discussion first and found nothing.

I see two STS-51L (on eBay 330923912932 and 251377131416), where one has US Space Camp packaging, where the star before the comet is missing (as Liembo picture above).

I am gambling it is a rarity error patch or AB Emblem is unaware they are leaving out a star. So I asked hear for assurance.


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